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Old 21-06-2011, 12:02   #1
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Anchoring: What am I doing wrong?

I have hesitated in opening this thread for fear of the inevitable downward spiral into 'anchor wars'. However, I'm looking for some feedback and any help would be appreciated.

Boat: 28 ft. Power (Express Cruiser)

Weight: 8,500 lbs

Current Ground Tackle: Fortress Fx-11 (Danforth Style), with 30 ft. of ss 5/16th chain, 200ft. of 5/8 inch braided line.

Bottom Conditions: Mix of sand, crushed shells and some clay.

Anchoring Method: ease down anchor until it reaches the bottom. Back up and simultaneously pay out line. Once I reach between 10:1/12:1 I cleat off the line, then reverse and hold it for 30 seconds. Then increase rpm's to 1,000 -1,100 and hold for another 30 seconds.

On two occasions (once last year and again last weekend) the boat held fine for multiple days. Reversing wind and tide on a single anchor. In both occassions the wind picked up opposing the direction the anchor was set. Anchor dragged.

This past weekend, I was very fortunate in that the boat was running and warmed up as we were preparing to depart. We were running around taking care of a few last minute things when i looked up and noticed we had drifted across the anchorage right for a rocky shore. I was able to pull the anchor in quickly and get us into safe water.
Last year I was not so fortunate as the exact same thing occurred while I was away from the boat. At that time, the chain had fouled the anchor and when the wind kicked up, the chain pulled the anchor out.

The boat was recovered with no damage in both occassions. In both occassions it was wind opposing the direction the anchor was set.

I see plenty of folks with Danforth style anchors, so I have to assume the problem is ME. I have seen many folks make the statement that a Danforth is not a good bower. Of course Fortress is really marketing the testing done by the U.S Navy.

I will admit in full disclosure that I have recently purchased a Rocna 10.

What I'm curious about is, is this me, the anchor I'm using, both?

Any thoughts and advice would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to sleep at night on the hook and whatever I'm doing or using now is clearly not working. I'm ready to accept this is user error. My goal is to avoid making the same mistake with a new anchor assuming it's the anchor and not me.

This probably could have fit in confessionals just as easily.
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Old 21-06-2011, 12:18   #2
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Re: Anchoring: What am I doing wrong?

Its nothing to do with your anchor.

Its your woefully inadequite amount of chain.

I have 330 feet (100 meters) and you have 30 feet (10 meters)

Throw the Stainless steel crap overbpoard and go buy a long leangth of chain you can afford, because no one can afford a proper length of SS chain.



Rope rode anywhere in your setup is like a red carpet to the rocks.
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Old 21-06-2011, 12:20   #3
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Re: Anchoring: What am I doing wrong?

Seems to me, you could let out your scope by just letting the boat fall back on the anchor without going into reverse. Then the anchor would have time to settle in. That advice is probably more appropriate to a mud bottom than to shells, but I still think you are putting too much pressure on the anchor before it catches. We don't always back down on ours at all if it brings the boat to a stop as we fall back. But, we use an all chain rode, which would be overkill for your boat.
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Old 21-06-2011, 12:28   #4
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Re: Anchoring: What am I doing wrong?

I disagree with Mark in this case.

The main reason they're so popular is they lay flat on a foredeck and have good holding strength for their size/weight.
They're great for straight line pull.

HOWEVER:

Opposing wind and tide and/or/ multiple current reversals which you said you experienced will wrap the chain around a Danforth type anchor and pull it out.

I use one for a strern hook when needed for bow and stern anchoring, but they are not a good choice when you have the above conditions as we usually do in the PNW.

Around here, I am happy with my Bruce knockoff and a boatlength of chain followed by rode.
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Old 21-06-2011, 12:28   #5
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Re: Anchoring: What am I doing wrong?

I have 4 anchors on our 34' trimaran... A Delta 35 is the primary, and we have spent over 2,000 nights on this hook, usually by itself. We save the other three Fortresses for differing needs. The small one for use with the Delta in a Bahamain moor... The larger Fortress is for emergency backup and predicted gales... AND the huge one we keep packed in it's bag for hurricanes.

A "Lightweight type" = Fortress, Danforth, etc. SHOULD NEVER BE USED ALONE AS A PRIMARY ANCHOR. They can "flip flop" and foul on a shell, beer can, or chunk of mud. The other type, like Delta, Bruce, Rocna, etc. ONCE SET... will slowly wallow themselves around in a 180 degree reversal of wind, WITHOUT pulling out and having to reset. They do this with about 99% reliability! (Weed is not to be trusted with any anchor)!

The "Lightweight type" do not wallow around slowly. In a STRONG reversing wind, they stay put until the force is enough, then they flip over. With the boat running away now... They will reset with about 50% reliability.

The Fortress rep claims that HIS anchor is a fine "use it alone primary". I have three of them, and he's wrong! They are great at "holding power per pound" in a single direction, but NOT as a single primary. As a primary: I prefer my Delta because it fits and works, but the Rocna / Manson types, are great as well.

With a lightweight rope/chain rode, 7/1 scope, (measured from the bottom to bow roller @ high tide), IS A MUST!
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Old 21-06-2011, 12:29   #6
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Re: Anchoring: What am I doing wrong?

i drop anchor and let out line then back up for a few secs and coast as i pay out what ever line to attain 5:1 scope min. As i cleat it in i hit rev one more time for a couple secs to bite anchor.
never had it pull out, and if i am in an area where wind change is probably gonna happen i drop second at 45 deg to first and seat it, this way i am set for either direction
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Old 21-06-2011, 12:33   #7
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Re: Anchoring: What am I doing wrong?

Danforths are notorious for excellent (I think besting almost everything else) in direct drag scenarios, but they are pretty bad at turning sideways when buried and pulled from a lateral direction. They tend to pop out and reset if you're lucky.

As you noted, both times you had the problem it was from a wind shift. If it was a scope issue you should have seen the issue regardless of wind direction. It's hard to have too much scope (to a point), but Danforths don't do well in the situations you're describing.

Great "lunch hooks" though. Very light for their holding power.
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Old 21-06-2011, 12:33   #8
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Re: Anchoring: What am I doing wrong?

I would not use a Danforth style anchor in a situation in which the wind, current or both changed direction. The anchor will likely trip and need to be reset. I have successfully used CQRs, Bruces, Deltas, Bugels in those conditions. I have no experience with a Rocna or Manson.

More chain is good. I would recommend at least 2 times your boat length.
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Old 21-06-2011, 13:37   #9
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Re: Anchoring: What am I doing wrong?

It is not you and your technique of anchoring. It is the anchor and the chain. Your anchor weighs something like 7 lbs and your chain weighs about 27 lbs. That's not near enough weight on the bottom. That coupled with the poor performance of the Fortress to reset is why you are experiencing dragging.
The Rocna will be a better anchor in that it is considerably heavier than the Fortress and has a good reputation for resetting. Try it with your current rode setup. The line you are using will be on the bottom with that much scope so whatever is on the bottom will be wearing on the anchor line. Depending on where you anchor you may also want to buy more chain. If you have a windlass you'll want to match the wildcat with the chain. Stainless is nice but if you are only on the hook for two or three days at a time I'd buy galvanized.
Good luck on sorting it out. Once you have the right gear you'll not need 10 to 12 scope. 7 will do it.
Kind regards,
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Old 21-06-2011, 13:43   #10
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Re: Anchoring: What am I doing wrong?

need to place more chain-- will work much better--i use all chain but usually have 100or more ft of rode out--- with 100 ft of chain, you will have a better angle to the anchor and will not drag as much if at all, an dwont wrap as much around anchor, lettin ganchor remain in the bottom without strain. dont use ss chain--is for show only.. use galvnized and more of it--my ericson has 100 ft 5/16 plus 35 pound cqr and works just peerfect--never draggged--i sailed on a 37 seidelmann performance cruiser--he use d30 ft 3/8 and 3 strand with 35 pound cqr and couldnt stick at all...... add chain to 100 ft and i believe you will be gooooooooood... gooodluck.
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Old 21-06-2011, 14:03   #11
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Re: Anchoring: What am I doing wrong?

IF it's the unsetting/ NOT resetting that's got you bothered, you have ONE choice. DO NOT USE DANFORTH STYLE ANCHORS...Peroid..

They come out with any 180 wind shift and reset like a bowling ball...

They're good for day/lunch hooks, but I gave up trying to sleep anchored with one of these years ago. Took three groundings to convince me...
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Old 21-06-2011, 15:05   #12
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Re: Anchoring: What am I doing wrong?

I agree with RTBates I have a 45lb danforth and it has pulled with reverseing tides sometimes fouling Great with a consent pull You should be good with the rocna
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Old 21-06-2011, 15:11   #13
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Re: Anchoring: What am I doing wrong?

I would change to a CQR or Bruce in your situation. The acceptable amount of chain in your situation should equal your boat length. You seem to have that covered. Of course more chain the better.
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Old 21-06-2011, 15:16   #14
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Re: Anchoring: What am I doing wrong?

Actually you do have a second option, you can use another danforth (or any style) anchor in a bahamian moor.

Keep in mind that 10-1 scope, you're boat has to travel twice that distance in a 180 degree wind/current shift. So if you have 100' rode out, the wind/tide shifts, you're rode goes slack, the boat travels over top of it, 200 feet later all 8500lbs of momentum suddenly pulls backwards (or sideways) on the anchor.

The further the boat has to travel, even in a .5knt current, the more momentum it builds and the higher the shock load on the anchor when it reaches the other end. So 10-1 scope is not always ideal unless you're experiencing strong winds and in a mostly predictable direction. With a bahamian moor, you're boat never travels much more than a single boat length. You're always being held properly by one or the other anchor, or sometimes by both anchors at an angle. but there is far less shock load on the anchors, and they are always pulling from the correct direction, negating the shortcomings, and making full use of the superior holding power of the danforth style anchor.

BTW: I didn't just make this up, you can read more about it here.

or you can just buy a bigger/better anchor and a bunch of chain
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Old 21-06-2011, 15:50   #15
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Re: Anchoring: What am I doing wrong?

I seem to remember reading somewhere that 'the anchor only holds the chain, it's the chain that holds the boat'.
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