Anchoring: What am I doing wrong?

[boatman61]

Damn I lasted 28 posts... amazing...
Ok....
Enter the anchorage and cruise the area within your depth needs.. note anchoring techniques and prepare to match... if everyones lying to fore and aft rigs you swinging off a solo is gonna wreak havoc... equally in the opposite scenario...
Check out for boats lying to chain... you can bet they'll be lying to a minimum of 3 boat lengths + drop from roller... a 21ftr would be 65ft + drop.. a 40ftr 120 + drop... compute that then judge your swing room behind the boat you choose...
Make your run with engine and main and turn head to wind, put engine in neutral... release mainsheet and stand by to drop anchor...
If you've judged it right you'll stall 20/25metres astern of the boat... drop the anchor by hand... you'll find the load goes off as it reaches bottom, hold a moment to get the angle laying right then pay out hand over hand as the boat falls away...
Stop every 10m or so and hold the strain till the boat starts to straighten then pay out again... if it drags pay out next 10 and try again... if it still drags prepare to raise and try another spot.... repeat to required length... in my case 21x3.5+Drop... snub and leave a few moments while tidying up... keep an eye no those marks...
If you use the engine... start low and slowly build rev's over a few minutes...
but usually I don't bother... figure the loads from the windage and occasional stops while laying keep the chain layed straight and the anchor digging well as we go..
If alls well drop your main and stow... if still happy kill the motor and grab that sundowner....
I go with the anti Kedge Brigade... my favourites a Bruce followed by a Plough as back up.... and a full chain rode..

[zeehag]

remember,in a tight anchorage, put out 2 anchors and you are the bad guy, as ye dont swing with the rest of the boats and that causes a problem. all ye need is 100 ft chain and a decent sized anchor.. doesnt even matter what kinda anchor ..LOL easy and can be really inexpensive.
and listen to boatman....he is smart too --so is markj.....

[Kettlewell]

Great post by Alchemy above. I agree with all points. I would also add that for your boat assuming you're mainly anchoring somewhere with no coral on the bottom, as little as 6 feet of chain on the rode is plenty, especially when using two anchors. I've used a Fortress FX-23 with a short length (15 feet) of chain many times as a secondary anchor in a Bahamian moor or other situation. In fact, I've used it with no chain at all when I've had to take it out a long way in the dinghy, and I've even snorkeled it out a few times. The inventor of the Danforth-style anchor, Robert Danforth Ogg, used to routinely anchor his 65-foot powerboat with nothing but two 12H Danforths with six feet of chain on each, set in a Bahamian moor, often with other boats rafted alongside.

[Dockhead]

As others have suggested, the Fortress, although it's a great anchor, would not be my first choice as a bower. If I were you, I would go with a conventional bower anchor, preferably Spade or Manson, as big as you can fit on your bow roller. And at least a boat length of chain; better yet, all chain, and at least 150 feet of it (more if you sail in tidal waters). Your technique sounds ok to me. Once you've got all your chain out, back down on it with steadily increasing revs for a few minutes to get the anchor really buried well. Then make cocktails. Enjoy!

[Shrew]

You folks are great, and I really appreciate the feedback. I can't hit every suggestion or question directly, but I'll try to generalize.

I agree a 7lb anchor is very light. I used the fortress sizing recommendation which stated the FX-11 is rated for a 28-32 ft. boat. I honestly thought since it's 28, I'm on the very low end of the recommended range. Because the area is large, it is equated to the holding of a larger anchor. I think they state round 13 or so LBs (28.66Kg). I still think this is light.

I would love to go with all chain rode, however since this is a planing boat, I simply don't think I can afford teh weight in the bow. granted, more chain would be nice. I had read in several places they suggested chain equal to baot length. I got a deal on the ss chain which, again according to generalized reading seemd to be the correct length and size for the size and weight of the boat.

For clarification purposes, I don't typically leave 12:1 scope out. I only let out more line when setting the anchor, then pull it back to between 7:1 ~ 10:1. Yes, I have calculated the distance from the transceiver to the water line and the distance from the water line to the bow roller and added the two. I also account for tide, but in my area there is only a 3.5 ft. tide swing, so it's not outrageous.

In most places I anchor, other boats either use bow/stern combinations to hold their stern to shore, or anchor off the bow only. The bow/stern folks are small boats, close to shore. I would screw up the works with a Bahama Moor.

I installing the Rocna 10 in the next few days. I appreciate everyone's feedback very much.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Shrew

13 or so LBs (28.66Kg). I .

You better try your conversion again.


13 pounds = 5.9KG. Not enough to hold a fly to sticky-paper.

Thats the weight of 2 gallons of Gassoline.

And without chain....

well, its your boat.

[Capt.Don]

Originally Posted by Shrew

Anchoring Method: ease down anchor until it reaches the bottom. Back up and simultaneously pay out line. Once I reach between 10:1/12:1 I cleat off the line, then reverse and hold it for 30 seconds. Then increase rpm's to 1,000 -1,100 and hold for another 30 seconds.

I would suggest first letting out 3 or 4 to 1 scope, set the anchor till it bites, then pay out the remaining proper amount of scope.

[zeehag]

doesnt matter the KIND of anchor-- the WEIGHT and length of chain does matter.. good luck. markj and boatman and i DO cruise and DO anchor as a regular happening- good luck and be safe.
i have found the RECOMMENDATIONS of the anchor and such manufacturers and sales folk are NOT reliable info--i use minimum 100 ft 5/16 chain and a 35 pound cqr on my 35mII ericson with excellent results--have NEVER dragged ... and with my 41 formosa i use a 45 pound cqr with 200 ft 5/16 chain and have had excellent resultt--i have NEVER dragged. rocks hurt boats. reality is reality.
1 pound is almost half a kilogram. one kg is 2.2 pounds. use the math and overkill never lost a boat. the studies i have read do not come from reality-- they are CONTROLLED studies made in unreal situations. listen to what you will--goood luck. make sure rocks and other boats are not within 1000 yards-- things happen at 0200-0300 without fail. sometimes at dinner time..LOL
replacing one toy anchor with another more pricey toy anchor isnt a goood idea-- is still toy--use some weight. use more chain. then ye dont drag. you will still plane if boat was designed well and built well. but--as they sed--is YOUR choice.

[GMac]

Holy hell, I hope like *&%&^ a few of the posters here never anchor in the same bay as me. And I bet a large pile of cold beers (yes that serious) many would be dragging inside 2 mins if they came down here.

And to give some nitemears - One of my main boats (yeah I have a few) is 32ft, a real one with mast and sails, sails around like a mad women on Crack while at anchor and is around 7000lbs. My anchor is a 4kg alloy one followed by 45ft of 1/4" chain and 200 odd of 12mm warp (polyester, it's better than nylon). Sat thru 50 plus kts many a time and snored right thru it happily, with my kids aboard. I have never once 'set it', I just come to a stop throw it over the bow and head for a coldie, the boat does the rest sooner or later.

Tune your system, know your gear and get a good technique then what gear you have doesn't make a massive difference.

Don't use a Fortress as a primary? Weird as many do very successfully, many of those also being commercial boats who have to jump thru masses of hoops to satisfy the butt covering bureaucracy. If said bureaucracy ever even slightly suspected a issue with Fortress's they would be gone by lunchtime. They haven't and are specified a lot more than it appears people realise.

Shrew. Reading your post you have had the anchor let go only once. The other time you said the chain hooked it up and dragged it out, the exact same thing could happen to any anchor so that's more a 's**t happens' than a gear failure. Having it slip once may not be a sign something is horribly wrong, it could easily been something as simple as debris on the seabed giving your anchor grief, that is becoming more common especially in heavily used areas. Not all boaters are clean green tidy take their rubbish away boaters, which is hopefully none of you.

The chain is fine on size but on the shorter end length wise and if you double the length you will find a vast improvement I'd expect. Add 50% of it's length and it give the anchor twice (there abouts) the helping hand. Here the general rule is a minimum of 1.5 times the on deck length of your boat. 5/8" warp is large for a 28fter, so all good there. The anchor is possibly one size too small but the one you have isn't silly small. It's probably a tad tricky to set due to lack of chain weight and you giving the motor some curry. Doing that you'll be lifting your chain and that will only lift the anchor as well. If it was a steel anchor of the same sized I'd expect you'd see the exact same thing happen. Swap to the Rocna and see how you go but about all I reckon you need to do is add chain and then not that much of it really. And maybe less backwards on the throttle when deploying, too much and the Rocna might not set either.

Originally Posted by zeehag

i have found the RECOMMENDATIONS of the anchor and such manufacturers and sales folk are NOT reliable info

OK, I had a response to Z's comment all typed in here along the lines of he's wrong and why but upon thinking a bit deeper I deleted it and are now saying I think I sort of agree with him.. to a point. Yes, 'generally speaking' I think you are right Z. Here we have it, the Aussies have it and I've seen plenty to suggest it's worldwide. Obviously manufacturers have a bias point of view and will try hard to screw you into their thinking, it's in their financial interest to do so. Some don't do much but some, or at least one is hard out at it, which is having a lot of downstream negative affects by the way.

Manufacturers to one side, the retail shops especially the big box chains, do seem to suffer a lack of product knowledge, don't forget we are still talking in the broad view, but that is sort of understandable as who could know everything about 15000 differing product lines, not many I'd suggest. But there are a large number of places, usually smaller, that have huge good knowledge. The hassle for the general public is trying to work out which is good and which isn't. When I shop I tend to look for smaller places (they have to work a lot harder due to no $1 million advertising budget) that carries a range of a item rather than just one or 2. Obviously a place that just sold X and Q widgets will try hard to get you to buy one of those. I like to find places with X, Q plus A, B and C's as well. Less chance of being pushed into one just for the bucks where if there is a larger range you have more options. A good large range of the same sort of item would also indicate that place thinks there are uses for all so again less likely to push you into one specific one for the bucks rather than offer a choice and in doing so give the punter a choice that will probably be a better option for the boat/whatever. What's more the smaller places are often cheaper also, no $1 mil adverts to pay for

Sorry about the novel length post. Blame Z, he started me thinking and that is often not a good thing

Originally Posted by Ziggy

4) Unless the stainless chain is high tensile (G4 or better), 5/16" may not be strong enough

You think a chain (assuming it's the most commonly used G30, as 90% of the world cruisers would be using) with a break load of over 7000lbs is too weak on a 8500lb boat?? If it's asian made it's probably a G20 so will bust around 5300lb. Both are perfectly fine (verging on overkill) even if the asian 316 SS will probably rust, as much asian SS does. G4 is not a high tensile.

And as a FYI - the number of boats swapping to SS chain, often the whole system, is huge. Far far larger than we can believe even at the lot higher cost than all galv. Seems more people just like bow bling and don't believe the by now well defunct myths, like SS chain is weak. Hello people, good SS chain is stronger than what some of the galv you are probably using today.

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

I disagree with Mark in this case.

The main reason they're so popular is they lay flat on a foredeck and have good holding strength for their size/weight.
They're great for straight line pull.

HOWEVER:

Opposing wind and tide and/or/ multiple current reversals which you said you experienced will wrap the chain around a Danforth type anchor and pull it out.

I use one for a strern hook when needed for bow and stern anchoring, but they are not a good choice when you have the above conditions as we usually do in the PNW.

Around here, I am happy with my Bruce knockoff and a boatlength of chain followed by rode.

I was wondering why the Danforth anchors are mostly only used over here as sand anchors and mainly on small fishing runabouts that will anchor for a few hours at a time. Nevertheless, I can remember reading an explanation similar to what you state. In support I quickly Googled the following,

Fluke - Danforth . . . .

The fluke anchor has difficulty penetrating weed-covered bottoms, as well as rocky and particularly hard sand or clay bottoms. With a changing tide or wind direction the anchor tends to break out and reset and on some occasions it might not reset but instead drag.

http://www.euphoriasailing.com/Marine-Engineering/Anchor-selection.htm

ANSWER: go buy a modern high holding power plough style anchor like the Rocna, Manson Supreme or Sacra Exell etc…,, I note I have a basic decent sized plough anchor with a short lenght of chain, and to date the only problems I have had is setting it was on a hard gravelly bottom. My small Bruce stern anchor sets well but can drag due its insufficient size. I.E, go bigger.

[captainKJ]

seeing no one can agree on what anchor to use, how much chain to use, and what type of coffee to drink (with or without grounds) why dont you do take the easy way out and just go to the dock or use a mooring ball. This will solve the problem of anchoring

[s/v Moondancer]

The Fortress anchoring guide is nonsense...It applies to perfect sets on perfect holding in moderate conditions.

My inflatable dinghy anchor is bigger than the FX-11.

Mark is 100% right if you want your boat to stay-put you have a heavy well-designed anchor and lots of chain because in many anchorages in the Bahamas and the Caribbean, Bequia and the outer anchorage in St Georges Grenada being good examples it is the weight that keeps you attached to the ground as you are anchored on a foot of sand over coral!

[Ziggy]

Originally Posted by GMac

You think a chain (assuming it's the most commonly used G30, as 90% of the world cruisers would be using) with a break load of over 7000lbs is too weak on a 8500lb boat?? If it's asian made it's probably a G20 so will bust around 5300lb. Both are perfectly fine (verging on overkill) even if the asian 316 SS will probably rust, as much asian SS does. G4 is not a high tensile.

GMac,
It is customary to design safety critical systems based on "Safe Working Load (SWL)" values not breaking load. SWL is usually much lower than BLL, with a big safety factor. Stainless comes in many grades, and can be quite strong, but not all of it is.

Having said that, I agree that for any normal conditions, 5/16 SS is just fine. But it's not that unusual to get 60 kt winds in a severe thunderstorm, and the loads imparted by a 28 ft power cruiser could be well over 2000 lbs. G4 galvanized chain is typically much less expensive than stainless and the SWL value is more consistent with 60 kt wind loads on a beamy 28 foot power cuiser.

[Kettlewell]

Folks, nobody ever reads the OP carefully and then you spout off about what you do on your boat in your waters. The OP is on a 28-foot power boat, and it sounds like it is a coastal cruiser somewhere along the U.S. coast. You don't need or even want 100 feet of heavy chain on such a boat in sheltered coastal waters. The boat is a planing boat--it needs to be light to plane. Heavy chain in the bow defeats that purpose. This is not a heavy world cruiser going to the South Pacific. 99% of the bottoms on the U.S. East Coast where boats anchor are mud or sand or a combo. Holding is not a problem at all in about 90% of those bottoms. Weed is very rarely a problem. I have personally anchored heavy cruising sailboats many, many times using FX23s as part of my arsenal, on mostly nylon rode. They have been down in hurricane force winds, and a tornado in the Chesapeake, holding boats much heavier than his with much more windage. It is not the holding power of his rig that is the problem, it is the way the anchor is being used. With a lightweight like that you need two anchors if there is going to be a wind and/or current shift. Yes, you do things differently on your boat, but we are talking about his boat in his waters. Rant over.

[zeehag]

DEAR GMAC-----ZEE IS NOT A HIM.
ZEE is a female who HATES waking to anchor dragging. ZEE is a female who has sailed since age 7.
you , my dear, have been reading way too much cruising world, where they also get my gender incorrect.....
NOW, back to the point-----you KNOW that as a female, i am ALWAYS correct..LOL
almost....except for when i am not correct, which is rare..LOL....
if ye dont want 100 ft of chain to anchor securely, then dont complain about dragging at anchor. dont have to stash anchor and chain in bow-- think about it-- there are many places in a boat--even a planing boat, in which to carry that weight, and some places even help the planing. LOL