Anchoring in Mud

[Fortress]

Originally Posted by Mark Johnson

IF your small Fortress WAS buried a foot down, it is highly unlikely that it can STILL take a 1,000# + load from the side, or totally the wrong direction, without suddenly pulling out!

Mark, did you have a look at the anchor test where they did pulls from 90° and 180°? The Fortress held firm at over 4,000 lbs....the maximum of what the boat could pull...and no other much heavier steel anchor even came close.

Sheesh, how can evidence like that be ignored? See Table 2 and Table 3:
1995 Anchor Study

Originally Posted by Mark Johnson

I have tried many times, and in really soft mud, (which is the bottom that WOULD allow either type to really bury), a Fortress must be set S L O W L Y !!! From my dinghy, Just to experiment, I've tried to drag the (mud position) Fortress backwards at speed, while holding the rode with one hand, IF I'm going 6 knots. It just drags through the really soft mud, and makes no attempt at all to re-set.

Do you have the Mud Palms installed, which came in the box with your Fortress anchor? We advise that you permanently install them, as they will help the anchor set faster in ANY bottom.

The Mud Palms lift the back end of the anchor up so that the flukes take a more aggressive angle into the sea bottom.

Originally Posted by Mark Johnson

To say that your Fortress, or any other "lightweight" style anchor, is suitable to be used alone, day in day out, as a boat's primary anchor, and it will take even strong wind & current reversals as well or better than the best of the (NEWER) plow types, like Delta / Rocna etc, is utterly irresponsible. It just aint so!

I hope that no one believes you... Or if they do, please anchor way down wind!

The US Coast Guard has used Fortress as their primary (AND ONLY) anchor for many years....on their 41', 47', 87', and 110' patrol boats, and Fortress performed so well that they are now the primary anchor on their new 45' RBM (180 are being built) and will be on their new 154' FRC.

There are a wide variety of boat builders who mount Fortress as the primary anchor aboard their brand new boats straight from the factory.

We have customers contacting us regularly, particularly after hurricane season, with incredible testimonial stories regarding how Fortress saved their boats during horrific wind conditions.....including hurricanes with dastardly wind shifts.

For crying out loud, the owner of our company crossed the Atlantic several times and did a circumnavigation with only Fortress as his primary anchor.

Can they all be wrong????

Originally Posted by Mark Johnson

Enough already...M.

Amen, brother. Amen. Thanks again for your comments.

Brian
Fortress Marine Anchors

[Mark Johnson]

Brian, you sound like such a salesman... This is all out of context doublespeak.

They didn't get a 4,000 pound pull from the side, using a 12 pound anchor, set with a small sailboat. When you said, "the maximum they could pull", I bet that they set the anchor with MORE force than an 18 HP engine, with a folding prop (like mine) could generate. NOT A REAL WORLD POINT.

I have used mud palms on all of my Fortresses since before they HAD mud palms available. (They didn't originally you know). Yes they help a bit to get a set started in mud, but I suspect they inhibit the deep burial in firm sand bottoms.

In the photo I sent, my Delta head can still be seen, just a bit. That was afrer a reverse RPM that I have found to be roughly equal to over 60 knots of wind for my boat. A Fortress wouldn't have buried a foot down in this firm sand either. I would feel much safer in a reversing 50 knot wind, knowing that my HALF buried Delta would spin around and still hold, than assume that a half buried 17 pound Fortress, would flip over and instantly re-set before my Tri got up to double digits backwards.

Many designs work great in one size, but use the same exact proportions, and they don't work at all in a different size. Test are the same.

The Coastguard doesn't "go cruising", use small sailboats with only 18 HP engines, go anchor out by themselves with only one person onboard, spin round and round on the hook for a month, or leave no one on watch in a gale. A Fortress is a great choice for what they do. Once again, NOT A REAL WORLD POINT.

You say that "a lot of boat builders"... Well I live in the boating capitol of NC. (were talking tens of thousands of boats) I have been in one form of boat business or another for 40 years and really get around to the marinas in this area. Except for huge Trawlers that always seem to have a paid crew, and almost never anchor over night, I have yet to see a single boat set up to sail to other countries, that used a lightweight type as their primary bow anchor. I've seen hundreds as a secondary backup for making a Bahamian moor, but not as a primary. Now, I wasn't looking for a count, but it can't possibly be as much as 2%! NOT A REAL WORLD POINT.

I also have incredible testimonials about the > dozen hurricanes I've been through personally. My Fortresses have been great! They are VERY powerful anchors at what they are good at. (NOT for flipping over and resetting reliably.) I even used 3 Fortresses in a triangular orientation to get a sistership to mine through 150 MPH gusts in a hurricane that wiped out 95% of the boats in Pensacola. All 5 boats that I prepared pulled through! (I must know something about anchoring?) In no case did I, or would I, expect the Fortress to take a 3,000 pound reversing load in a hurricane, after a calm, when the eye passes over. I DO NOT use them by themselves... I made a mooring to keep their load orientation within 30 degrees of where it started at.

Congratulations to the owner of your company. He may be like the friend of mine who went around the world three times, mostly without stopping. Did he anchor much, crossing the Atlantic? Thousands of times? Was he upping the hook almost daily to make a short hop, then after he got the hook down that afternoon, dive on it, AND the ten boats up wind, to see how their anchors looked? I do...

If he used a Fortress by itself, it was either for very few times, or he had a crew on watch, or got lucky. Some people try Russian Roulette and survive. That doesn't make it smart! NOT A REAL WORLD POINT.

In the past I have loved my Fortresses, (although less so now). They are definitely "pound for pound", the most powerful anchors... I have installed them on my clients bow rails as well, for a first class "extra" or "storm anchor".

I will however advise them of the same thing that I am advising the forum: "NEVER USE ANY BRAND OF "DANFORTH TYPE" ANCHOR AS YOUR ONLY PRIMARY ANCHOR, EXCEPT IN CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE A STRONG REVERSAL OF WIND AND CURRENT IS NOT EXPECTED. THEY CAN NOT BE RELIED UPON TO FLIP OVER WITHOUT FOULING. NO MATTER YOUR GOOD INTENTIONS... IF YOU ANCHOR IN SAND ONE DAY, AND MUD THE NEXT, DON'T FOOL YOURSELF INTO THINKING THAT YOU WILL HAVE THE DISCIPLINE TO WRESTLE A FORTRESS OFF OF THE BOW, AND TAKE IT APART TO RE CONFIGURE IT FROM "SAND" TO "MUD". DOING THIS EVERY DAY, OR "OFTEN", IS JUST: "NOT GONNA HAPPEN"!

IN THE WORLD OF SMALL SAILBOATS, WITH RELATIVELY SMALL ENGINES, AND A HUSBAND AND WIFE CREW, WHO ANCHOR ALMOST DAILY AND LEAVE THE BOAT TO GO ASHORE OFTEN. YOUR SAFEST & BEST PRIMARY SINGLE ANCHOR IS THE TOP 4 OF THE ANCHORS THAT WERE DESIGNED FOR THIS. DELTA, SPADE, ROCNA, ETC... AND GET ONE THAT'S LARGER THAN THE MANUFACTURER SUGGEST. IF NECESSARY, GO WITH G-4 / HT CHAIN, TO COMPENSATE FOR THE EXTRA WEIGHT.

This type also fits bow rollers better, take up less space up there, have less parasitic windage, are less hammered by bow waves, and are less likely to ding the bow.

May all of our anchoring go well. My first boat was uninsured, and it was run down at anchor. Don't want to go through THAT again... Maybe it was the anchor's fault? Mark

[SailFastTri]

Ha! Mark it's time to pour yourself a painkiller and unwind

These sales guys can get under your skin. Especially when they come out with lines like: "When you are a manufacturer of such an important piece of safety equipment as a boat anchor, you had better be upfront and straightforward about the performance capabilities of your product."

Straightforward B-S

LOL!

[Fortress]

Mark,

I wish you smooth sailing & fair winds, and above all ....safe anchoring!

Take care,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors

[Ram]

What about the quality of the build of Fortress, how many of them get bent out of shape- I have one that has become deformed

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Ram

What about the quality of the build of Fortress, how many of them get bent out of shape- I have one that has become deformed

Send it back? I understand that they have always been generous in replacing anchors, even if you bent it in a hurricane while being towed by a bulldozer.

[Fortress]

Originally Posted by Ram

What about the quality of the build of Fortress, how many of them get bent out of shape- I have one that has become deformed

Ram,

We offer a Lifetime Parts Replacement Warranty. No need to have registered the purchase, or produce a sales receipt, or send back any damaged parts.

Customer only pays S & H, which is nominal since the parts are light & we use the US Postal Service to ship them.

Contact us when you are ready via the web or @ 954-978-9988 or USA toll free @ 800-825-6289.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Brian

[craigsmith]

Originally Posted by Bash

Send it back? I understand that they have always been generous in replacing anchors, even if you bent it in a hurricane while being towed by a bulldozer.

How many times do you intend to send it back? Every time you use the thing to the limits of its supposed capability? Will Fortress replace your destroyed anchor in the five minutes you have off that leeshore before you need to re-deploy it?

Fortress make a big deal out of replacing anchors, as if it's some point of distinction. In fact, most anchors of repute come with lifetime guarantees of this sort, including but not limited to Delta, Spade, and of course Rocna. (In fact consumer law in most countries would have something to say about any product proven unfit-for-purpose in the course of normal usage...). Spade particularly have an equal reputation of replacing their aluminium shanks that tend to turn up bent here and there.

The difference of course is that you may make good use of the guarantee with the one, and not the other - because it's unlikely to ever be necessary. Which would you prefer?

[downunder]

This is an excellent thread and all have added to the discussion. Got to smile at the salesmen
Mark’s quote
“I also have incredible testimonials about the > dozen hurricanes I've been through personally. My Fortresses have been great! They are VERY powerful anchors at what they are good at. (NOT for flipping over and resetting reliably.) I even used 3 Fortresses in a triangular orientation to get a sistership to mine through 150 MPH gusts in a hurricane that wiped out 95% of the boats in Pensacola. All 5 boats that I prepared pulled through! (I must know something about anchoring?) In no case did I, or would I, expect the Fortress to take a 3,000 pound reversing load in a hurricane, after a calm, when the eye passes over. I DO NOT use them by themselves... I made a mooring to keep their load orientation within 30 degrees of where it started at.”

Mark is it possible to produce a diagram on how you prepared the vessels in your above quote.
Will be useful for the approaching cyclone on the Queensland coast. A category 4 as predicted will wreck plenty of vessels including those in the various marina’s here.
http://www.usno.navy.mil/NOOC/nmfc-ph/RSS/jtwc/warnings/sh1111.gif

Tropical Cyclone Threat Map Page (1)

[downunder]

Map of TC Yasi

[MarcW]

Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith'

My Manson Supreme is terrible in mud. I hate it that I have to pull and strain forever to get the darn thing off of the seafloor... it is really inconvenient to have to work so hard to get it back up to the surface... oh, and the terrible burden or removing all that mud from them....

I agree with the above.

Anchors which one the one you have no anchor is prefect.

[Fortress]

Originally Posted by craigsmith

The difference of course is that you may make good use of the guarantee with the one, and not the other - because it's unlikely to ever be necessary. Which would you prefer?

Craig, excellent question. Would I rather have an anchor that will withstand an incredible amount of wind and save my boat during a horrific blow, but my anchor might have a part bent in the process, or....

Have an anchor that will give way once the wind becomes severe, and my boat will be in splinters along the shoreline, but my anchor will still be pristine?

Regards,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors

1995 Anchor Study

[Ram]

Originally Posted by Fortress

Ram,

We offer a Lifetime Parts Replacement Warranty. No need to have registered the purchase, or produce a sales receipt, or send back any damaged parts.

Customer only pays S & H, which is nominal since the parts are light & we use the US Postal Service to ship them.

Contact us when you are ready via the web or @ 954-978-9988 or USA toll free @ 800-825-6289.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Brian

What more could anyone ask for ! This is in fact more than I expected- Very rarely any product exceeds my expatiations and you have just done it !- I was going to toss this anchor- It’s been sitting for I’m thinking about 20 years and –its been out of service nearly that long but I did not have the will to throw it away until now- Sure it was abused and I really did not expect such a generous offer from Fortress all I can say is thank you and GO FORTRESS
-

[Fortress]

Originally Posted by Ram

What more could anyone ask for ! This is in fact more than I expected- Very rarely any product exceeds my expatiations and you have just done it !- I was going to toss this anchor- It’s been sitting for I’m thinking about 20 years and –its been out of service nearly that long but I did not have the will to throw it away until now- Sure it was abused and I really did not expect such a generous offer from Fortress all I can say is thank you and GO FORTRESS
-

Ram,

And thank you for your kind words. Just let us know the color of the paint on the engraving on the shank (black, blue or red), the model number, the part(s) you need, and your mailing address, and we will follow up with you from there.

Regards,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors

[Mark Johnson]

Downunder,

I'll see if I can help... Decades ago I rode out some hurricanes on the hook, but out in open areas. (Luckily the storms were Catagory 1s, and my Danforths (opposing each other), held. I did however get dragged down on by the boat in front of me, in the middle of the night!

Since then I have sought out ever increasing levels of protection, as long as the boats around me looked like they had responsible and highly skilled skippers.
Sometimes I spiderweb in a canal. There are a number of these 'VACANT", deep in "ghosts towns", where a development was planned, but never materialized. Unfortunately, the "dufi" might move in after I am already set up!

One of my favorites is to go deep into a maagrove forest, like our Shark River, in the FL, Everglades. There, the river winds for miles in mangroves 40' tall! I would wrap and shackle a 10' chain around the base of about 10 mangrove clusters, at the base. (at or below the water.) I'm talking about around a 6' across cluster of roots. In the shackeling process, I put in the thimbled eye of numerous 150' or more 5/8" min lines. These are to tie in spider web fashion. In this much protection, the wind at my mast head might be 140, but at deck level it might only be 45! This only works if you are NOT surrounded by idiots doing something similar with 4 or 5, 3/8" ski ropes. (It's happened to me, some boats with washing machines and stacks of plywood on deck!)

If the mooring distance is close, like 25' from a fixed point, use three strand nylon for stretch. If the distance is like 75 - 100', you would be better off with lower stretch line like nylon double braid, or three strand polyester. ( I have been in the middle of a canal, and my nylon lines stretched SO much, that I was hitting the opposite wall!)

(Under an almost breaking load, 50' of three strand nylon can stretch to 75'!)

Doubled up polyester "Textile" chafe gear is less likely to melt the lines at contact points, than any of the hose or split tubing varieties. In my one "huge" storm, (on the border between a 3 & 4) many lines turned to a solid plastic! In my last post, #62, that monohull, during the storm, which was up wind of me... had such a strain, that it popped, (not chafed), a 1" double braid line with a 30,000 pound BL!

Other times I have spiderwebbed between docks, where my lines are long and can stretch with the rising surge. (Like in IVAN)

I have also made a three anchor, (LARGE Danforth types), mooring... I have used it either up a very narrow, protected winding creek, or most recently, I set up my friends sister ship Searunner.

During "Ivan", the killer storm, we had gusts over 150 MPH, and a surge around 13' - 15'. We were in a relatively protected bayou, 1/4 mile across, but in the direction that the wind was going to come from, the fetch was about a mile. Up again at posts #62, you see the dotted line on the yellow outbuilding... THAT'S how high the water got! Although sea level and geography made the results not as critical for us, causing far less damage, the wind and approaching surge were worse than Katrina!

On my boat, I spiderwebbed between the dock and huricane pilings, that I specifically had the dock owner put about 30' out from the boat. I used 21 lines, with some being stretchy three strand, that were doubled up with others that were not as stretchy, but 1' longer. This way I had shock absorbtion and a limit to how far it would get to the pilings or the dock. I also had anchors bow and stern.

I went from the house at the top of the hill where I was going to stay, out to the boats to adjust lines, about 9 times, as the wind howled and the water rose. MY lines were almost perfect, but needed one or two loosenings.

As for the evacuated property owner's, monohull, on the UPwind side of the dock... I had "spiderwebbed" it in a similar manner. IT was about to tear up and destroy both of us, however, as his pilings were not as far out as mine. I went out MANY times to loosen the leeward side of his boat. The last couple of times, required that I do the side stroke, (after midnight of course), with a flashlight in one hand but out of the water. (Luckily, the chop was only about 2') That huge oak tree in the above photos, had already fallen, but I didn't know, and the gusts were to 150 MPH!

Going out and adjusting lines kept these boats and the dock there, unlike most on our "hard hit" side of the bayou.

Earlier, a 28' or so monohull had anchored out 200' away and upwind of our dock, With only one small hook. (I knew he was a future missile) Just before the storm, after the irresponsible owner left, I went out with a large Fortress and rode, (mine), but his 6" cleats would never hold. So I took a long section of 1" double braid, folded it in half, and tied a hitch in itself to make a 1' eye. I positioned the eye in front of the bow, with a small line to hold it up, then wrapped the large line's two legs around the sides of the hull and then up to the base of the mast, and tied them securely. I included chafe gear where needed. This eye gave a strong enough attachment point for my large Fortress's rode.

My friend Chuck, with a Searunner sistership to mine, asked what I thought he should do. The options such as mine, were now all taken. So we set up a three anchor mooring in the far, shallow (3'), end of the bayou. (This was my "invention" from 10 years earlier.)

I will cut and paste this account, from the book that I am working on... "My 40 Year Love Affair With Multihulls".

For Chuck’s Searunner 34, I had suggested my homemade hurricane mooring for multihulls. We picked a spot in the very shallow end of the bayou, between two spoil islands, knowing that we couldn’t get his Searunner in or out without a really high tide. It was very protected but tight in there, and we had a sunken barge to avoid as well.
I came up with this system ten years earlier for tidal places with reversing currents, or for when you just want to anchor and leave the boat prior to expected landfall of the storm. In this case you don’t want all these lines wrapped around each other when they’re needed most. The first step is to set up the mooring…
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………… ……………….
The mooring starts with a large galvanized oval/fork swivel… (¾”)
Put another 7 or 8” long oval into the fork, so there is a pear shaped oval on each end. This is now about 1’ long. (The larger oval is the bottom one).
This is kept vertical by attaching a 1’ diameter float to the upper “smaller” oval, with a thin 3’ pennant.
The bottom oval has three, 5/8” X 4’ long tails of three strand nylon, with thimbles tightly spliced in. These are connected onto the oval with similar size shackles. Wire them well.
One sets the largest anchor first, by dinghy (opposite the worst threat). Set it really well! Then using a bowline through a bight, tie the rode to the first of several of these 4’ tails. For safety, two half hitches after the bowline is a good idea. I got Chuck to double check every step with me.
Then set the next anchor and tie it to the next tail accordingly. I suggest Fortress 37s minimum… or even 55s! This is way cheaper than insurance, and more reliable.
Now set and attach the third anchor accordingly, in a triangular pattern.
Set it up as tight as possible by hand. It will still drag and stretch to the point that the swivel moves around a bit and lies in the crotch of a “V” when load is applied.
The excess anchor lines that are on the bottom can now be pulled toward their respective anchors about 20’, and put into mesh bags. These bags you then tie to the now tight anchor lines, using the bag’s draw string. This makes the tangle free mooring.
You then pull up to the mooring with your trimaran and pick up the float. Now connect up your 40’ long X 5/8” double braid bridle legs to the upper oval. These bridle legs have thimbles tightly spliced in, and are connected to the oval with large safety wired shackles.
After these bridle legs are run through the ama bow chocks and cleated, as a safety… run an extra leg (or two), from the middle of the upper oval to the bow of the main hull, then through chocks, & cleat them. Use doubled up textile chafe gear at the chocks.
The outer bridle should be the tighter of the bow lines, for directional control.
There you have it… It takes about two hours to set up. (It could be much longer to retrieve). IF you have good holding, good protection, strong gear and do it right, it should hold a Searunner 34, even in a category four!

(THE MOORING SWIVEL IS PICTURED ABOVE ON POST #62)

So, this is how to do the mooring... Meanwhile up at the house I was staying in, I had my largest Fortress 55 ready to swim out to any boat dragging down on me. (IF I could see it... BIG IF!) I have done this before, and yes it can be done. A huge storm is much easier to move around in mostly under water, than walking around, IF the chop is small. To swim out an emergency hook... You have the mostly rope rode carefully figure eighted in a canvas rope bag. (it will be weightless under water) This is attached to a LARGE boat fender with a 2' long X 1/4" line, using a neat BOW knot. You do the same with the Fortress but with a different 1/4" line. Then with good fins, mask & snorkle, and wearing a wetsuit, (not foul weather gear), you side stroke this out to the offending boat, and the fender holds it up. Then you have to decide weather to deploy the anchor first, or attach the rope first, by untying the bow knots. If you can't reach the deck or some attachment point, with the end of the anchor's rode, do a rolling hitch on the lines already on the boat's bow, swim the anchor out, and pull the OTHER bow knot. YES... It has scared the sh.t out of me on occasion, but my wife and I have put in about 50,000 hours of labor building, outfitting, and re-fitting our boat. It is incentive to do CRAZY things!

In the middle of the worst part of the storm, I finally gave up on going out to the boats... The water got so high in the property owner's house, that I thought the hypothermia or drowning inside would do me in, so I set out for the only modern stilt house in the neighborhood. (the few non evacuees were here) The two blocks were traversed in water up to my arm pits. Cars, boats etc were floating down the street, and all of the varmints, bugs, etc in that top 1' of floating mulch, were looking for high ground, MY head!

All of the boats that I prepared and nursed through the storm, were among the undamaged 2%.

In the end, we lost our land stuff, my van, and a $30,000 tool trailer that I make a living with. (all uninsured!) BUT, we still had our boat! After this, we finished the refit we were in the final stages of, and set out for the Chesapeake, Bahamas, and then Eastern Caribbean.

Well that's about it... Maximize shelter and minimize the projectiles around you. Make a mooring if you need to, and ALWAYS use Danforth / Fortress types opposing each other if you can. (In our case, after the eye passed, the wind reversed at well over 100 MPH!)

The old saying about: "There is nothing that you can do in a hurricane", is not necessarily true. It depends on your skills at this, and willingness to risk your life. In my case, I figured I was less likely to die in the storm, than to die in the attempt to built another boat. (This one had taken ten years!)

Good luck!!!

Mark