Anchoring etiquette questions...

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The main thing you demonstrate Sabado is that a little communication can go a long way to preempting, and/or mitigating, many perceived anchoring conflicts. The vast majority of the time, if you try and talk to your neighbour, instead of giving them the stink-eye, carping on about “I WAS FIRST!” or dangling the family jewels, you can usually resolve any perceived problems like adults.

Reasonable people can usually reach reasonable compromises. When you encounter an unreasonable situation, the only thing you can ultimately do is move.

The concept also applies, in many different scenarios.

ie:
If you ever get locked out of your boat, talk to the lock, calmly.
As communication is key.

[Leadfree]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The main thing you demonstrate Sabado is that a little communication can go a long way to preempting, and/or mitigating, many perceived anchoring conflicts. The vast majority of the time, if you try and talk to your neighbour, instead of giving them the stink-eye, carping on about “I WAS FIRST!” or dangling the family jewels, you can usually resolve any perceived problems like adults.

Reasonable people can usually reach reasonable compromises. When you encounter an unreasonable situation, the only thing you can ultimately do is move.

That may be your experience, but it has not been mine. Every time I've asked someone to move, they either did not, or replied in anger. Therefore, if I get sat on, I just move. Anyone that doesn't know better than to anchor too closely doesn't have the fine good sense to be decent about it therefore talking to them is analogous to trying to teach pigs to sing. My ultimate solution is to avoid popular anchorages awa anchor in difficult areas. You people need to realize that people who seek out remote areas are NOT there for company.

[boatman61]

I just start hanging fenders around the bow areas..

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The main thing you demonstrate Sabado is that a little communication can go a long way to preempting, and/or mitigating, many perceived anchoring conflicts. The vast majority of the time, if you try and talk to your neighbour, instead of giving them the stink-eye, carping on about “I WAS FIRST!” or dangling the family jewels, you can usually resolve any perceived problems like adults.

Reasonable people can usually reach reasonable compromises. When you encounter an unreasonable situation, the only thing you can ultimately do is move.

but why did it take so many years to finally arrive at this perfect advice, it was always just this easy… and to think, i’ve been parading around with my pants off and yelling to get my results….good thing that there is more intelligent and experienced crowded anchorage sailors than me.

could we make this a sticky?

[senormechanico]

OTOH, I've not done this, but parading around with the family jewels hanging out just might get you some new friends.

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

OTOH, I've not done this, but parading around with the family jewels hanging out just might get you some new friends.

you’d think so, but i’ve been mostly getting laughs and ridicule, so i’ve booked myself in for some mods that should put a stop to it.

[thinwater]

[QUOTE=Mike OReilly;3923939]All this discussion is why I place little stock or value in the oft-repeated notion that the first into an anchorage somehow controls how everyone else is to behave...QUOTE]

In fact, it does not affect how others behave. But it should affect how you behave. In other words, don't expect others to stay clear, but stay clear yourself.

Dockhead summed it up very well.

---
I can only recall one personal case where there was contact. A small boat showed up at ~ 10 pm and went to the bar. There was no wind, but I put out fenders. We rubbed in the wee hours, but no harm.

When I showed up, 4 hours earlier, there was one other boat, no problem. It had gotten too crowded while I was at dinner (dozens of boats in a small space) to safely move, in the dark, without hitting someone. There was a boat over my anchor, and I did NOT have a lot of scope out, only 25' of chain plus bridle.

But there was little wind nor the expectation of any. The safe answer was to put out fenders.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Leadfree

That may be your experience, but it has not been mine. Every time I've asked someone to move, they either did not, or replied in anger. Therefore, if I get sat on, I just move. Anyone that doesn't know better than to anchor too closely doesn't have the fine good sense to be decent about it therefore talking to them is analogous to trying to teach pigs to sing. My ultimate solution is to avoid popular anchorages awa anchor in difficult areas. You people need to realize that people who seek out remote areas are NOT there for company.

One problem with the idea of asking, is that unless the newcomer is inexperienced, they may just have a different idea of "too close." I've been the newcomer. I anchor a LOT, and I'm at least moderately competent. I've been hollered at -- and I haven't moved. I do prefer remote anchorages, but unless you are Mike O'Reilly, most of the rest of us have to anchor at least sometimes in crowded anchorages. Some people want to have zero overlap between their swing circle and yours -- and some even want a buffer in addition to zero overlap. I, for one, don't care to indulge that view.


I have moved, after anchoring, even without being hollered at, when I don't like how it all settled out. But if I'm comfortable, I don't think that "being first to the anchorage" gives you the right to determine the rules of the anchorage. And I'd be about as unhappy at banging my boat on my neighbor as he would be about my doing the banging.

[Johan Leopard51]

From etiquette perspective, swimming over and pointing out the big mushroom coral that your new neighbor will encounter in a 90 degree wind shift is the RIGHT thing to do and 100% of cases they thank you and shift.

That spot did not just happen to be open, the locals knew to avoid it. We have many charter visitors and they almost always react well to friendly advice, including an offering of a drink to chat about their plans for the week and where is best to go.

If a guy (it is never a lady) behaves like a dick, he can be sure to have customs, fisheries and safety inspections for the duration of his visit

imho charters should not allow bare boat. Our rule requires local skipper for outer islands (about 140 nautical miles away) but the day will come when any charter requires a local skipper.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Sabado

If someone anchors at a distance that we believe is too close, we move.

If we anchor and are within about 3 boat lengths but we feel comfortable, we go over to let them know our scope, anchor alarm situation, and to make sure they are comfortable. If they aren't, we move.

Depending on where one cruises, no doubt we all have different tolerance levels of what "crowded" means. In many of the Balearic anchorages in peak summer, it's less than 3 meters ( not boat lengths ) that some folks, including myself, generally start to get a little uncomfortable with. Unfortunately, there are others who don't see that as a problem at all.

[Leadfree]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

I've been hollered at -- and I haven't moved. I, for one, don't care to indulge that view.

So given your attitude, I suppose if someone (in your opinion) anchors too closely to YOU, and you go ask them not to, and they ignore you, you just 'get over it?'

Because 'not indulging someone's view' can go both ways. And your opinion of your competency is your own, and in fact likely is not that of the more experienced.

[Greg K]

Lots of commentators here saying that if you think somebody has anchored to close to you and refuses to move, you should pick up your anchor and move instead. Regardless of the practical value of such advice, I have to say that in over a decade of cruising in the Med I can not remember that I have ever moved in such a situation nor can I recall ever seeing anyone do so. No doubt it happens, but it must be very rare and probably involves a boat with no-one aboard, leaving no choice but to pull up and anchor elsewhere.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

One problem with the idea of asking, is that unless the newcomer is inexperienced, they may just have a different idea of "too close." I've been the newcomer. I anchor a LOT, and I'm at least moderately competent. I've been hollered at -- and I haven't moved. I do prefer remote anchorages, but unless you are Mike O'Reilly, most of the rest of us have to anchor at least sometimes in crowded anchorages. Some people want to have zero overlap between their swing circle and yours -- and some even want a buffer in addition to zero overlap. I, for one, don't care to indulge that view.

It’s true, I don’t share an anchorage very often these days. But I have spent many cruising years in busy areas, specifically the North Channel (Lake Huron), and the Thousand Islands, which can be as crowded as any place can be. I do much prefer being in remote places where seeing another boat is a cause for celebration, not consternation.

Originally Posted by sailingharry

I have moved, after anchoring, even without being hollered at, when I don't like how it all settled out. But if I'm comfortable, I don't think that "being first to the anchorage" gives you the right to determine the rules of the anchorage. And I'd be about as unhappy at banging my boat on my neighbor as he would be about my doing the banging.

That’s the point, and it swings both ways. If one party is comfortable with the situation, and chooses not to move, then the only thing the uncomfortable person can do is move. In my experience, most problems can be avoided at the outset through a little pre-anchoring communication. But after the hooks are down, talking to your neighbour about comfort levels goes a long way to allieviating fears.

Of course, one has to approach the conversation with good will (even when you believe the other party is not doing the same). And of course, there are dyck-heads who have no interest in working things out amicably. But those people are rare. If one (not saying you Harry) finds oneself constantly in anchoring fights, then I seriously think you need to look at the common denominator of that equation.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Greg K

Lots of commentators here saying that if you think somebody has anchored to close to you and refuses to move, you should pick up your anchor and move instead. Regardless of the practical value of such advice, I have to say that in over a decade of cruising in the Med I can not remember that I have ever moved in such a situation nor can I recall ever seeing anyone do so. No doubt it happens, but it must be very rare and probably involves a boat with no-one aboard, leaving no choice but to pull up and anchor elsewhere.

Then, one can only conclude that the parties involved don’t truly think they face a significant risk of serious collision. Therefore all the fretting is unnecessary.

[Montanan]

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Set proper anchor rode buoys to visually mark and dissuade too close of anchoring.
Yeah, yeah, rode markers is yet another thread topic sure to rile up the Cruiser's forum.

And be sure to enjoy the social engagements of decoupling when rodes become entangled. "I don't believe we have met before?" "Nice to bump into you." "Come aboard for a sun downer."