Anchoring etiquette questions...

[noelex 77]

Anchoring conflict is rare.

As others have said, the best solution is to move even if you were the first to anchor.

It helps if you have good anchoring gear. This allows you to safely shorten up the scope (this can sometimes eliminate the problem without the need to move) or to make use of less favourable anchoring areas (as these are likely to be free even in busy areas). Situations such as this are why I advocate that cruising boats choose the best quality anchor in the largest size they comfortably manage.

If you share a common language, there is nothing wrong with politely discussing the issue. Sometimes the skipper will indicate he is leaving shortly, but frankly it is rarely productive.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Anchoring conflict is rare.

.

Where do you cruise?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

. . . It is not too difficult to figure out where a boat's anchor is and its scope. Just ask. There was a boat in Maine with 300 ft of rode out in 20 feet of water, and when I asked, he told me that his engine had died.

Indeed. And even if you can't find out, the geometry of it is very tolerant to pretty significant differences in scope and uncertainty about where the anchor is. If you set your anchor just behind the next boat's stern and half way to the next boat over it's almost impossible to have any problem even with significant differences in scope and even with different boat types.



It's surprising actually how many boats can be packed into a given amount of space without problems.

[Mike OReilly]

Anchoring conflicts are rare. If they are not for you,, then you need to examine the common denominator in the equation .

And yes, it’s not hard to figure out the geometry of an anchorage once you’ve spent some time anchoring. When in doubt, ask existing anchored folks what they have out, where their anchor is, and whether they have any advice. It’s as much about establishing a raport, as getting the info. Reasonable people can come to reasonable solutions if a problem arises. Starts with talking to the neighbours.

The point is, if you believe the situation is unsafe, due to someone anchoring too close, you have an obligation to do something. If you can’t convince your neighbour to move (likely because they don’t believe there is a problem), then all you can do is move yourself. In fact, you have an obligation to do so.

[barcoMeCasa]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Anchoring conflict is rare.

My experience as well.

Though common if you sail on the internet

[desodave]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Anchoring conflicts are rare. If they are not for you,, then you need to examine the common denominator in the equation .

And yes, it’s not hard to figure out the geometry of an anchorage once you’ve spent some time anchoring. When in doubt, ask existing anchored folks what they have out, where their anchor is, and whether they have any advice. It’s as much about establishing a raport, as getting the info. Reasonable people can come to reasonable solutions if a problem arises. Starts with talking to the neighbours.

The point is, if you believe the situation is unsafe, due to someone anchoring too close, you have an obligation to do something. If you can’t convince your neighbour to move (likely because they don’t believe there is a problem), then all you can do is move yourself. In fact, you have an obligation to do so.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Anchoring conflicts are rare. If they are not for you,, then you need to examine the common denominator in the equation . . .

[Johan Leopard51]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

It only matters to the sea lawyers

Go ahead and let your boat get hit while to saying to yourself "I was here first"

The title is about ETIQUETTE, not law. It is impolite to expect that the first boat move. It is also polite to caution another skipper about dangers he seems unaware of.

Also, in many cases the late arrival picks an open spot that is not open by sheer luck. It is open because there are several uncharted and hard to see coral heads that the locals avoid. I don’t want him damaged and I don’t want 30 years of coral recovery destroyed.

More than half the time, it is not rudeness but ignorance, which is why I swim over, have a chat, exchange some local tips and then the guy moves a bit for his safety and mine and that of the coral.

[JPA Cate]

Swimming over is fine....in Sonoma, okay; maybe not so "cool" in Svaalberg, where it might be extremely cold.

Ann

[Lambretta]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

All this discussion is why I place little stock or value in the oft-repeated notion that the first into an anchorage somehow controls how everyone else is to behave. Everyone has an equal obligation to avoid a collision. Boats coming into an anchorage have an obligation to anchor in a safe and secure way. That means taking into account existing boats, and how they are laid out. But it doesn’t give the “first-in” some magical ability to dictate how everyone else anchors.

As an anchored boat, if someone anchors in a way that bothers you, you can ask them to change, but after that all you can do is change your situation, likely by moving.

Ultimately, you can’t change others. You can only change yourself.

Spot on Mike

[GordMay]

Some proposed definitions differentiating between laws, morality, ethics, and ETIQUETTE:

LAWS are formal rules, defined, and enforced, by an authority, consisting of statutes, regulations, common law, and constitutional law.
MORALITY is the fundamental values, of an individual, or of a society, expressing what we believe is right and wrong.
ETHICS are morals, applied to a given situation, describing how to find the line, between right and wrong.
ETIQUETTE is an agreed upon set of behaviours, and rituals, used to navigate social situations, in a well-mannered [polite] behaviour.

[Fuss]

We are talking etiquette in crowded bays in calm conditions.

Ok so firstly, who arrived first out of you and the other one… after 2 days, it’s not in anyway clear, hey..I was here first, no sorry mate, I was here first , I’ve been here for 3 days, yea , well so have I …so forget the who was here first, it only exists on the first day and in these forums. Forget this part.

So, the crowded bays have at least 2 anchoring conflicts a day. That’s the reality , they’re crowded bays, with all sorts of anchoring techniques….
Anchoring conflicts are rare!!…Of course they are if you’re in remote bays

There is 1 sort of problem…
you both might hit and your discussing… what a luxury problem to have, one lets out some scope, one takes up some…problem solved….
You’re uncomfortable being the one to take up some scope, ok, you have to move this time, then get a bigger anchor that can handle 3:1 overnight in these conditions.

I know for the OP it’s annoying but just get used to it.

A while back a boat with about 7 on came in and anchored around 7 times making some others shout a bit and then anchored again over there a bit and they got out the beers and went on the rocks sort of, it took an hour to get them off with 3 dinghies…so you see, it’s always the same in crowded anchorages…at least two problems a day
Another bay, a guy was going to T bone me at 1 kt as he drifted through the bay thinking about where to anchor… I knew he was planning to T bone me as he did this to the yacht ahead of me as well.
I pushed his bow off and asked if astern worked.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I would normally move if I thought someone was upset by how I was anchored, even if I judged that to be unreasonable -- who needs that unpleasantness when the purpose of what we are doing is to have fun?

[....]
But wouldn't it be better to avoid all that in the first place? There's always another anchorage, rarely more than an overnight sail away. Why in God's name force the issue by staying in such a place? What are you cruising for? To have fun, or to have conflicts?

One of the things I've learned is that the boating experience varies regionally.

Locally, I would hold up the example of Stockton Island:

https://www.waterwayguide.com/explor...58&mode=marina

Stockton's three bays each have protection from wind and wave over about 270 degrees with each bay having its problematic wind directions. That said, they provide the best protection in the area. On an unfavorable wind shift, everyone moves, and on a busy weekend it ends up being crowded, especially at the shallow end of the pool.

Sure, there are other places to go, but relatively few Apostle Islands boaters will rule out Stockton just because it's busier.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Fuss

We are talking etiquette in crowded bays in calm conditions.

Ok so firstly, who arrived first out of you and the other one… after 2 days, it’s not in anyway clear, hey..I was here first, no sorry mate, I was here first , I’ve been here for 3 days, yea , well so have I …so forget the who was here first, it only exists on the first day and in these forums. Forget this part.

So, the crowded bays have at least 2 anchoring conflicts a day. That’s the reality , they’re crowded bays, with all sorts of anchoring techniques….
Anchoring conflicts are rare!!…Of course they are if you’re in remote bays

There is 1 sort of problem…
you both might hit and your discussing… what a luxury problem to have, one lets out some scope, one takes up some…problem solved….
You’re uncomfortable being the one to take up some scope, ok, you have to move this time, then get a bigger anchor that can handle 3:1 overnight in these conditions.

I know for the OP it’s annoying but just get used to it.

A while back a boat with about 7 on came in and anchored around 7 times making some others shout a bit and then anchored again over there a bit and they got out the beers and went on the rocks sort of, it took an hour to get them off with 3 dinghies…so you see, it’s always the same in crowded anchorages…at least two problems a day
Another bay, a guy was going to T bone me at 1 kt as he drifted through the bay thinking about where to anchor… I knew he was planning to T bone me as he did this to the yacht ahead of me as well.
I pushed his bow off and asked if astern worked.

Yes, you are absolutely correct: conflicts about anchoring space, like any other resource on this planet, are mostly a consequence of overcrowding... ie, too much demand , too little supply at any given time

Aside from the etiquette issue, I will just add a point to your comment regarding resolving a potential conflict by one person pulling in a bit of chain and the other letting some out. In any place other than one where the wind remains from the same direction day and night such as in a Trade wind zone like almost anywhere in the Caribbean, this strategy is only temporary. In a place like the Med, for example, the wind at night might, and often does reverse, and then that 2 meters you let out and the two he pulled up might just put you on top of him. So, for somebody that's going to stay overnight, the only solution really is for him to move the anchor further away from yours or vice versa.

[Johan Leopard51]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Your reality is a bit different than mine. I have had 5 moorings fail on me personally, and know of many more. ..

Yes, poor initial design plus poor maintenance is a problem. A couple of us are looking at putting together a project to help local maritime safety / conservation departments.

So professionally designed, marked on maps, augmented by a color-coding for capacities. Part of the project is that it creates jobs, so in an area there is a local that looks after them but also polices using them and the local can augment further selling foodstuffs or cleaning and waste glass plastic can removal.

Plan is that an area is surveyed, it gets XY buoys and that overall there is an outright ban on anchoring in a bay that has these buoys. The coral destruction from mainly charter boats is horrifying. Anchoring would then by default only happen (allowed) in areas determined to be low risk of coral damage.

If a small levy per charter is collected from charter boat, it will easily sustain itself - literally EUR25 per week is a rounding error.