Anchoring etiquette questions...

[donradcliffe]

Boho Bay is nothing compared to anchoring off the Sydney Opera House for the fireworks prior to New Years eve in 2000. It was gusting over 25 knots and the battles went on for 2 days. Even a restaurant on a barge dragged. Great memories.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Greg K

. . . We cruise in the Balearics, and I have lost count how many times idiots have come on top of us in the middle of the night because they refused to move when requested.

So these "idiots" refused to move, and you didn't move yourself? Although you judged they were too close for safety? Hmmm.

[kmacdonald]

With a less than pristine boat, I have little to no concern with tight anchoring. The dock queens always make room when things look dicey.

[eheffa]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

With a less than pristine boat, I have little to no concern with tight anchoring. The dock queens always make room when things look dicey.

Ha!

Makes me think of another time in Boho Bay with only 2 other boats there and lots of choice of good anchor spots.

We had been anchored in ~20 m of water for a couple of days (thinking we were deep enough to have the area to ourselves) when just as the sun was setting, an old wooden ketch, slack in the stays with bits of old iron hardware and remnants of broken off chain plates jutting out at all angles arrived, looking to anchor. The boat looked like a cast off prop from the Pirates of the Caribbean.

The salty bearded single hander skipper dropped his CQR about 15m from us and let out all the rope rode he had. It didn’t even look like it had touched the bottom as he headed below to call it a set.

I called out to him to say that he was too close & thought he would have more success closer to shore in shallower water.

He protested that he had no depth sounder or charts and was afraid of getting too close to shore and potentially running aground. He wasn’t the least bit concerned about hitting another boat.

As I was trying to make sense of this logic and decide what to do next, another sailboater who overheard some of this exchange, dinghied over and helped him find a more suitable spot close into shore in shallower water where his rode was just adequate.

The lesson here might be that another solution to a ‘too close’ boat would be to offer to help the other boat find a more suitable spot to drop the hook (especially if they seem a little bit ‘out of their depth’)?

[kmacdonald]

Getting an old salt to haul up 90 feet of chain and a 20 kg anchor by hand is harder than pulling teeth. It would be a lot easier to mover yourself if YOU think the boats are too close.

[eheffa]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Getting an old salt to haul up 90 feet of chain and a 20 kg anchor by hand is harder than pulling teeth. It would be a lot easier to mover yourself if YOU think the boats are too close.

Thankfully, I didn’t have to convince the old salt to pull up his 5 kg CQR, 10 feet of chain & a rather short run of manilla rope as another boater intervened to tell him that his chosen anchor spot would not work.

He may well have not been too close for very long as I’m sure he wasn’t even set and would have drifted off in a number of possible directions…

And, yes, if he had refused to move, we would have moved our boat & made sure to be out the way of his downwind drag.

[senormechanico]

That sounds like the marine version of riding a New York subway.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

So these "idiots" refused to move, and you didn't move yourself? Although you judged they were too close for safety? Hmmm.

Your reply suggests you have not spent any significant time in the Balearics in peak season. The anchorages are overcrowded. Moving is pointless as another idiot will arrive sooner or later and do the same thing.

Moving only empowers the idiots. Better to stay put, make it clear that they will be responsible for any damage if there is a collision then take a picture of the offending boat getting the name and flag and, if possible, the scowling confused face of the idiot to make it clear that should he cause damage you will chase him down and make a claim. At that point they usually move, but not always.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by eheffa

Thankfully, I didn’t have to convince the old salt to pull up his 5 kg CQR, 10 feet of chain & a rather short run of manilla rope as another boater intervened to tell him that his chosen anchor spot would not work.

He may well have not been too close for very long as I’m sure he wasn’t even set and would have drifted off in a number of possible directions…

And, yes, if he had refused to move, we would have moved our boat & made sure to be out the way of his downwind drag.

I'd have figured he was there for the long haul with a ground tackle setup like that.. My experience has been that it doesn't matter where you anchor, it will be too close for someone. And that someone isn't necessarily the closest boat to you.

[kmacdonald]

Moving if someone anchors too close to you is sorta like feeding trolls. But hey, its your pride and joy, not theirs.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

well the real rule of anchoring is:

He who is the most worried needs to move first.

I had a guy cry once because I didn't want to, and didn't, move. Yet he himself didn't move so just how concerned was he?

thread post #9

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Greg K

Your reply suggests you have not spent any significant time in the Balearics in peak season. The anchorages are overcrowded. Moving is pointless as another idiot will arrive sooner or later and do the same thing.

Moving only empowers the idiots. Better to stay put, make it clear that they will be responsible for any damage if there is a collision then take a picture of the offending boat getting the name and flag and, if possible, the scowling confused face of the idiot to make it clear that should he cause damage you will chase him down and make a claim. At that point they usually move, but not always.

According to maritime law, you will be at least partially responsible in case of an accident if you knew the situation to be unsafe and failed to do anything about it. You are actually obligated to move in such a case. Your vessel's safety is always your own problem, and what someone else does with or without the right to do it, does not diminish your responsibility.

You are obligated to act according to your own judgement of what is safe. The thing is, is that other skippers are not indeed obligated to agree with your judgement. So there's not anything you can do when dealing with an "idiot" except take matters into your own hands and make your vessel safe.

Another thing is that judgements about what is a safe and what is an unsafe distance when anchoring vary widely. Some people think it's unsafe if another boat anchors anywhere in their swinging circle. Others think a couple of meters is enough. In general, it is difficult to judge by eye even what the distance is (some people use hunting rangefinders; I use radar), much less what distance is required for safety. One man's "idiot" might actually be another man's consummate anchoring expert. In any case, collisions between two anchored boats causing damage are exceptionally rare.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

well the real rule of anchoring is:

He who is the most worried needs to move first.

I had a guy cry once because I didn't want to, and didn't, move. Yet he himself didn't move so just how concerned was he?

I would normally move if I thought someone was upset by how I was anchored, even if I judged that to be unreasonable -- who needs that unpleasantness when the purpose of what we are doing is to have fun?


Or if you can't move, then you can always ask the guy over for drinks, as recounted in a couple of stories referred to in this thread.


If all that fails then yes, you can just say, sorry, I judge this to be OK, so I don't choose to move.


But wouldn't it be better to avoid all that in the first place? There's always another anchorage, rarely more than an overnight sail away. Why in God's name force the issue by staying in such a place? What are you cruising for? To have fun, or to have conflicts?

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

According to maritime law, you will be at least partially responsible in case of an accident if you knew the situation to be unsafe and failed to do anything about it. You are actually obligated to move in such a case. Your vessel's safety is always your own problem, and what someone else does with or without the right to do it, does not diminish your responsibility.

You are obligated to act according to your own judgement of what is safe. The thing is, is that other skippers are not indeed obligated to agree with your judgement. So there's not anything you can do when dealing with an "idiot" except take matters into your own hands and make your vessel safe.

Another thing is that judgements about what is a safe and what is an unsafe distance when anchoring vary widely. Some people think it's unsafe if another boat anchors anywhere in their swinging circle. Others think a couple of meters is enough. In general, it is difficult to judge by eye even what the distance is (some people use hunting rangefinders; I use radar), much less what distance is required for safety. One man's "idiot" might actually be another man's consummate anchoring expert. In any case, collisions between two anchored boats causing damage are exceptionally rare.

Interesting reply. I am not a lawyer, maritime or otherwise, but my understanding is that an anchored vessel properly daymarked and lit up at night has the legal right not to be interfered with by other boats. I would be interested to see the actual legal wording in maritime law which disputes that understanding specifically as regards anchored vessels. As for failing to do anything about the potential danger, is not bringing the fact to the operator of the offending vessel that they are putting themselves and your vessel in danger and, therefore, requesting that they move not considered an action taken to avoid the mishap? And, isn't ignoring such a request a flagrant act of irresponsible behavior on the part of the offending skipper?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

But wouldn't it be better to avoid all that in the first place? There's always another anchorage, rarely more than an overnight sail away. Why in God's name force the issue by staying in such a place? What are you cruising for? To have fun, or to have conflicts?

Man I sure wouldn't come into an anchorage late afternoon and turn around and sail over night because some ahole wanted to claim ownership over all the space.

I can avoid all the conflict be sitting in the cockpit with a nice sundowner and watch the ahole have a melt down. et HIM put up and sail overnight!