Anchoring etiquette questions...

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

In something like 40 years of doing this, I don't recall ever once asking anyone to move. Why would you even bother? If someone has anchored really badly, it's very unlikely that this person will understand your concerns, so what's the point?

I, on the contrary, move regularly. If I don't like the way other boats are anchored around me, which does happen from time time, it's MY PROBLEM, whoever came first, because I am solely responsible for the safety of my vessel, full stop, and the solution is to move or head back out to sea.

.

While I commend your personal seamanlike attitude, I find it rather misguided that you think it would work at scale. Can you imagine the mayhem that would regularly ensue in anchorages if new comers simply assumed that if they anchor too closely the other boats will simply leave?

There are traditional rights, spoken and unspoken, which everyone is aware of, and, inadvertently, it is those that stand their ground and insist on the application of such rights that ultimately make anchorages relatively civilized for all of us.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Greg K

While I commend your personal seamanlike attitude, I find it rather misguided that you think it would work at scale. Can you imagine the mayhem that would regularly ensue in anchorages if new comers simply assumed that if they anchor too closely the other boats will simply leave?

I never said that, and it's not implied at all by anything I said.

Newcomers are obligated to anchor safely, period.

But if they don't -- it's not my job nor your job to "teach" them by "standing your ground", which is unsafe and unseamanlike. Their obligations do not grant us any rights at all.

Originally Posted by Greg K

There are traditional rights, spoken and unspoken, which everyone is aware of, and, inadvertently, it is those that stand their ground and insist on the application of such rights that ultimately make anchorages relatively civilized for all of us.

You are mistaken here, my friend. You've got no rights of any kind at sea. There is not a single right of any kind in the COLREGS, only obligations.

"Standing your ground" -- that is, failing to resolve what you have determined to be an unsafe situation in the hope of forcing someone else to take action instead of you is just wrong.

We're not on land. At sea these things simply work differently.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I never said that, and it's not implied at all by anything I said.

Newcomers are obligated to anchor safely, period.

But if they don't -- it's not my job nor your job to "teach" them by "standing your ground", which is unsafe and unseamanlike. Their obligations do not grant us any rights at all.



You are mistaken here, my friend. You've got no rights of any kind at sea. There is not a single right of any kind in the COLREGS, only obligations.

"Standing your ground" -- that is, failing to resolve what you have determined to be an unsafe situation in the hope of forcing someone else to take action instead of you is just wrong.

We're not on land. At sea these things simply work differently.

Well, counsellor, you do seem to present leaving as the only reasonable solution in a number of your posts.

From my observations, standing your ground, in fact, almost always helps to resolve potentially unsafe situations before they present an imminent danger. Nobody is saying you should put your boat in danger and do nothing. But making it clear to a newcomer that you have no intention of moving and that they have the responsibility not to endanger your boat seems like a pretty reasonable thing to do, even if it may be unpleasant. Sure beats pulling up anchor and going out to sea for the night as a first line of action, if you ask me.

But, whatever, you do you and I'll do me. Everybody has to decide for themselves how to deal with such situations.

[Mike OReilly]

It’s hard to follow your logic GK. You’re suggesting people intentionally anchor badly, using it as a strategy to force someone else to move. Therefore you need to “stand your ground” to show them the error of their ways? Is this really what happens in your world? What a sad way to live.

As DH has clearly stated, if you determine you are in an unsafe anchoring situation, and you can’t resolve it by other means, then the only reasonable thing you can do is move yourself away from the situation. The colgregs don’t grant you rights. It lays out the obligations we all have as mariners. So if you don’t move, and there is a collision, then you are at least partially to blame.

[eheffa]

Thank you everyone for this interesting discussion.

Clearly there are many shades of nuance in how we communicate with other boaters and what we should expect from other boaters.

What prompted my question in the first place was to doubt my own expectations. I had understood that one should seek to anchor in such a way that you stay outside of other boats' swing circles. When 4 yacht club boats arrived in our relatively crowded and rather deep anchorage late in the day, I was amazed to see them drop the hook so close to other boats, rafting up mere meters from their neighbours. There would have been room and places to set where there was more room but they made no effort to seek those spots out.

When the last boat of their entourage started trying to anchor to the deep side of our position (we were in 22m ) and were clearly content to be within our swing circle, I wondered whether I was mistaken in my opinion that this was unacceptable...?

(The new arrival was anchoring in deep water with inadequate rode (~60m out in ~25m depth) and showed no visible attempt to even test the set before quickly joining the happy hour gang on the other yacht club boats. They weren't even there on the boat to discuss the situation as they drifted ever closer. I wasn't sure that they had even set the anchor at all. This left me no other reasonable option but to move into deeper water away from them. We set the hook in 29m with 3:1 scope and tested the set well away from the other boats.)

We slept well but I was left wondering if I was misunderstanding the basic etiquette of how close is too close; thus, my question.

Like Dockhead, we strive to get away from the crowds and we avoid popular summertime anchorages as much as possible (eg the gong show that is Desolation Sound in July and August) but that's not always practical. It helps to understand what the rules of courtesy should be...

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It’s hard to follow your logic GK.

Try harder.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by eheffa

What prompted my question in the first place was to doubt my own expectations. I had understood that one should seek to anchor in such a way that you stay outside of other boats' swing circles. When 4 yacht club boats arrived in our relatively crowded and rather deep anchorage late in the day, I was amazed to see them drop the hook so close to other boats, rafting up mere meters from their neighbours. There would have been room and places to set where there was more room but they made no effort to seek those spots out.

When the last boat of their entourage started trying to anchor to the deep side of our position (we were in 22m ) and were clearly content to be within our swing circle, I wondered whether I was mistaken in my opinion that this was unacceptable...?

(The new arrival was anchoring in deep water with inadequate rode (~60m out in ~25m depth) and showed no visible attempt to even test the set before quickly joining the happy hour gang on the other yacht club boats. They weren't even there on the boat to discuss the situation as they drifted ever closer. I wasn't sure that they had even set the anchor at all. This left me no other reasonable option but to move into deeper water away from them. We set the hook in 29m with 3:1 scope and tested the set well away from the other boats.)

We slept well but I was left wondering if I was misunderstanding the basic etiquette of how close is too close; thus, my question.

Like Dockhead, we strive to get away from the crowds and we avoid popular summertime anchorages as much as possible (eg the gong show that is Desolation Sound in July and August) but that's not always practical. It helps to understand what the rules of courtesy should be...

I think there’s no doubt you experienced poor boating etiquette. But it’s not because they were swinging within your swing-circle. It was for the general inconsiderate approach.

Your response to the situation was the best one you could do.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Greg K

Try harder.

Greg… your attitude suggests you are the aforementioned common denominator.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It’s hard to follow your logic GK. You’re suggesting people intentionally anchor badly, using it as a strategy to force someone else to move. Therefore you need to “stand your ground” to show them the error of their ways? Is this really what happens in your world? What a sad way to live.

As DH has clearly stated, if you determine you are in an unsafe anchoring situation, and you can’t resolve it by other means, then the only reasonable thing you can do is move yourself away from the situation. The colgregs don’t grant you rights. It lays out the obligations we all have as mariners. So if you don’t move, and there is a collision, then you are at least partially to blame.

I say again, just start hanging out the fenders.. saves a lot of needless chat and usually stimulates the arrival into conversation..
"Wotchya doing that fer???"
"Saves me getting up in the night when you bang into me later.. "

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I say again, just start hanging out the fenders.. saves a lot of needless chat and usually stimulates the arrival into conversation..
"Wotchya doing that fer???"
"Saves me getting up in the night when you bang into me later.. "

To be serious, this is a good idea for those cases where one is not certain there’s a problem. Especially if the issue is no wind, and boats anchoring with rope rode.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

To be serious, this is a good idea for those cases where one is not certain there’s a problem. Especially if the issue is no wind, and boats anchoring with rope rode.

Oh I was serious Mike...
They then either start hanging fenders around their stern or, move ahead of another boat.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by :smile:boatman61

Oh I was serious Mike...
They then either start hanging fenders around their stern or, move ahead of another boat.

Oh, I know… you’re a serious guy Phil

But to be serious, clearly you’re describing a situation where you think there is a real concern, but the other boater does not. So, once again, it is a situation where only you can take action. Putting up fenders might be one way to deal with the perceived problem. And it might encourage your neighbour to reconsider their situation. As I say, if I only expected a light tap, then I might do the same. But either way, it’s my problem.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

To be serious, this is a good idea for those cases where one is not certain there’s a problem. Especially if the issue is no wind, and boats anchoring with rope rode.

In Manchester by the Sea (Just inside Gloucester, MA), the mooring field is so tight that many boats hang fenders and all outboard boats put a basket/bucket/etc over their raised lower units. Banging isn't just possible, it's common!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

In Manchester by the Sea (Just inside Gloucester, MA), the mooring field is so tight that many boats hang fenders and all outboard boats put a basket/bucket/etc over their raised lower units. Banging isn't just possible, it's common!

Yikes . Sounds like a poorly laid-out mooring field.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yikes . Sounds like a poorly laid-out mooring field.

No, just a very small harbor and a lot of boats. Still, while I have been a guest on a mooring there, I'd not want to be there full time!