Anchoring etiquette questions...

[Johan Leopard51]

Originally Posted by Greg K

Depending on where one cruises, no doubt we all have different tolerance levels of what "crowded" means. In many of the Balearic anchorages in peak summer, it's less than 3 meters ( not boat lengths ) that some folks, including myself, generally start to get a little uncomfortable with. Unfortunately, there are others who don't see that as a problem at all.

3 meters is beyond absurd! We have solutions for that, including dangling their anchor from their bridle.

That distance is WAY WAY WAY outside etiquette/incompetence.

[tsenator]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Anchoring conflicts are rare..

Obviously you never anchored in Block Island during a summer weekend LOL

[Leadfree]

Originally Posted by Greg K

I have to say that in over a decade of cruising in the Med I can not remember that I have ever moved in such a situation nor can I recall ever seeing anyone do so. No doubt it happens, but it must be very rare and probably involves a boat with no-one aboard, leaving no choice but to pull up and anchor elsewhere.

It's not rare to me. I've been in sail 40 years and full-time aboard for 10. I tried about twice, maybe three times, to ask people to move and they refused so I left. Fool me thrice, shame on me... so if someone sits on me I'll pick up right there and then and carry my arse and I've done that quite a few times. I've had the pleasure of traveling to a spot that I wanted to see, found that the anchoring area was small, it was already occupied, so I just went on to somewhere else rather than trying to jam in. The disappointment of missing the spot is nothing to the stress and irritation of having someone too close, and I damn sure won't do that to someone else. AFAIC, there is NOT 'always room for another boat.'

As I said, I avoid popular anchorages, and if I should have to go somewhere popular (f.ex. provisioning) I will find a corner that is too shallow or inaccessible for most anyone else. Actually I do that even if the anchorage is lonely because some jackwagon is bound to come along and sit on me...

[JPA Cate]

After cruising for a couple of years, we noticed that we routinely anchored out in deeper water, where available, and usually off to one side (wherever the vessels already there were less densely packed. I didn't know it till later, but it had become common knowledge when people talked about it. [I'm okay with that.] We also learned early not to anchor on the anchor depicted in the cruising guide.

Then, so, on perhaps our second trip to Australia, we anchored off a small cove, about halfway towards the entrance of an inlet where the cruising guide had the anchor way up in the mouth, maybe 1/2 mi. away. About midway between where we were, was a path to a cave with aboriginal art, from which one could watch the sunset. We went in to watch the sun go down, then wandered by dinghy through the anchorage. We were invited aboard a boat and went.

In chatting we found out that the people aboard had chartered the boat, essentially because they had a credit card with a large balance; they had little experience as sailors, in fact hadn't yet put up the sails. They freely shared their champagne and the shrimps they had imported from Melbourne. And they asked where we were anchored.

We told them and pointed out the anchor lights. (Masthead and one that illuminates the stern and cockpit.) One of them then said, "I bet why you anchored there is to avoid people like us." Man, I felt awkward. We'd shared food and drink with them. So I guess it was Jim who explained that we like to leave the anchor pictures area for the charterers, who in that area are required to be at anchor by 1600 or so, and left it at that. In retrospect I wonder if there would have been any way at all to just say "yes, we sleep better with plenty of room," or some such, maybe, "We don't invite people we don't know into our bedroom."

If you expect to be nice to people and them to you, it seems to pull that behavior out of you both.

Ann

[Sabado]

Originally Posted by Greg K

Depending on where one cruises, no doubt we all have different tolerance levels of what "crowded" means. In many of the Balearic anchorages in peak summer, it's less than 3 meters ( not boat lengths ) that some folks, including myself, generally start to get a little uncomfortable with. Unfortunately, there are others who don't see that as a problem at all.

Three boat lengths and we'll reach out to them. We have never had anyone say they were uncomfortable with that but they have all said they appreciate the communications.

Three meters? I've never even been on a mooring that is that close to another boat. I would not anchor in that situation. That's not even half our beam. I guess that might mean we have to skip some nice spots.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Then, one can only conclude that the parties involved don’t truly think they face a significant risk of serious collision. Therefore all the fretting is unnecessary.

Simplistic analysis leads to simplistic conclusions.

European boaters on vacation are used to crowded anchorages and display a great deal of patience to try to avoid confrontation. The situation usually gets resolved in time when the offending boat finally realizes it has to move whether that's a half hour later or in a few hours when the boats swing.


They resolve the conflict in this manner because they don’t truly think they face an imminent significant risk of serious collision. Therefore, a more measured approach is more appropriate.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Sabado

Three boat lengths and we'll reach out to them. We have never had anyone say they were uncomfortable with that but they have all said they appreciate the communications.

Three meters? I've never even been on a mooring that is that close to another boat. I would not anchor in that situation. That's not even half our beam. I guess that might mean we have to skip some nice spots.

You certainly might have to skip the popular anchorages in the Balearics in peak season

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Greg K

You certainly might have to skip the popular anchorages in the Balearics in peak season

He should definitely stay clear of Soller..

[Sabado]

Originally Posted by Greg K

You certainly might have to skip the popular anchorages in the Balearics in peak season

One of the main reasons we are out here is to stay away from crowds so, not a problem.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Leadfree

So given your attitude, I suppose if someone (in your opinion) anchors too closely to YOU, and you go ask them not to, and they ignore you, you just 'get over it?'

Because 'not indulging someone's view' can go both ways. And your opinion of your competency is your own, and in fact likely is not that of the more experienced.

Perhaps I've been lucky. Perhaps I'm too laid back. I've had people anchor close enough to make me a touch nervous. But frankly, I don't think I've ever mentioned it to them, and don't think I've ever moved to avoid them.


There are certainly those more experienced at anchoring than I -- but not routinely found (arguably, this forum is probably well populated with those more experienced than I -- but I don't routinely anchor with people on this forum). In this boat alone, which I've only had for 5 years, I've probably dropped anchor over 300 times (not nights, but distinct anchorages). I'm pretty sure those (very few -- I can only recall one) that have complained have NOT been the "more experienced" and in fact are likely to have been the less experienced (those that haven't learned how boats swing). And I've never gone bump in the night.


I do find it odd that you assume that when only one person is nervous, it is obviously the more experienced anchorer. I'd argue that it is more likely the less experienced, who is nervous of everything, while the more experienced person (both the newcomer, and the person there first) understand what is comfortable and what isn't.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

If you expect to be nice to people and them to you, it seems to pull that behavior out of you both.

So well put Ann. The only wisdom I’ve learned over my years is that you tend to get back what you put out. If you go in with your back up, and guns ablazin’, then that’s what you’ll get back. If you approach with a smile, and a willingness to hear what the other person is saying, then there is usually a way to find an amicable solution.

[Leadfree]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

P
I do find it odd that you assume that when only one person is nervous, it is obviously the more experienced anchorer.

It is you who are assuming; I said nothing of this sort. Reread my post, which is a comment on opinion wrt competency, in actuality

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

. . . One of them then said, "I bet why you anchored there is to avoid people like us."

ROTFLMAO.


What self-awareness! A good reminder not to assume that people are idiots just because they lack sailing experience.

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

If you expect to be nice to people and them to you, it seems to pull that behavior out of you both.. .

AMEN to that. A key life skill that.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

Perhaps I've been lucky. Perhaps I'm too laid back. I've had people anchor close enough to make me a touch nervous. But frankly, I don't think I've ever mentioned it to them, and don't think I've ever moved to avoid them.

There are certainly those more experienced at anchoring than I -- but not routinely found (arguably, this forum is probably well populated with those more experienced than I -- but I don't routinely anchor with people on this forum). In this boat alone, which I've only had for 5 years, I've probably dropped anchor over 300 times (not nights, but distinct anchorages). I'm pretty sure those (very few -- I can only recall one) that have complained have NOT been the "more experienced" and in fact are likely to have been the less experienced (those that haven't learned how boats swing). And I've never gone bump in the night.

In something like 40 years of doing this, I don't recall ever once asking anyone to move. Why would you even bother? If someone has anchored really badly, it's very unlikely that this person will understand your concerns, so what's the point?

I, on the contrary, move regularly. If I don't like the way other boats are anchored around me, which does happen from time time, it's MY PROBLEM, whoever came first, because I am solely responsible for the safety of my vessel, full stop, and the solution is to move or head back out to sea.

Also, what's the big deal about reanchoring (or heading back out to sea)? Don't we do all this for fun? I enjoy handling my vessel, including the process of anchoring. If it were such a bother, why would I be doing it in the first place?

Originally Posted by sailingharry

I do find it odd that you assume that when only one person is nervous, it is obviously the more experienced anchorer. I'd argue that it is more likely the less experienced, who is nervous of everything, while the more experienced person (both the newcomer, and the person there first) understand what is comfortable and what isn't.

It certainly cuts both ways. An inexperienced (or not competent) person might be unnecessarily nervous, imagining a danger which doesn't exist, or on the contrary, oblivious to some real danger.

But again -- the only thing that matters is YOUR judgement. YOU are responsible. Whatever someone else does or fails to do doesn't reduce your responsibility in the slightest. Wherever the danger comes from, YOU have to deal with it, and eliminate it. Blaming someone else is a completely useless activity, or a worse than useless activity since it will only distract you from your responsibilities. Count only on yourself.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

ROTFLMAO.
What self-awareness! A good reminder not to assume that people are idiots just because they lack sailing experience.
.

My therapist told me, I am quite self aware.
I already knew that.