Anchoring 32' Sloop

[rgleason]

Existing system: 1981 32' Sloop 12,500 lbs, 3YM30 Yanmar, with 2' bowsprit and large anchor roller on starboard side, 22 lb Bruce Anchor (very reliable, galvanized about 4 years ago), 1/2"x200' 3-strand nylon 41 years old and 10' 3/8 chain is rusty. 40 yr old 25lb Danforth and 1/2"x200' line with some chain. No windlass.

Use: Cruising Eastern Coast, mix of Maine rocky, sand, mud and kelp. Some deep anchoring.

Knowing the anchor line and chain need replacement, I realized I should look at the entire system. The boat is a CCA design and has long ends and a short waterline (22'), so I must keep the weight in the ends low. Therefore I do not want to have an all chain rode and have never had more than 10' of chain. Also I have been reading that the much touted "catenary" effect is totally lost in a storm as the chain straightens out. Therefore it is my opinion that all-chain rode is not be optimal in this boat and this situation.


I realize that some readers may have some set "perceptions" and "rules" that they may always follow, and this proposal may fall outside those bounds.... Please keep in mind that the design of the boat has some limitations with respect to anchor setup and weight.

1. Is there a good double braid sleeve for 1/2"-5/8" 8-plait or 12-plait to provide additional chafe protection? If so, I would consider adding that to the bottom 50' of my anchor line, provided it would still flake readily in the stowage area.

2. What would be the best type of anchor line to use? I've found the 3-strand to be quite durable, and wonder about 8 & 12-plait, having greater chafe and snagging? Will it last as long?

3. What is best 8 or 12 plait? What line/material is best for anchors, ..tough, durable, resistant to chafe and snags, long lasting and providing some stretch?

I have been reading a lot about anchors and chain and have not decided on anything yet, but the Spade(A80-15lb, A100-26lb or S80-33lb), Vulcan (9 or 12) or Viking (7 or 10) would be good possibilities for the bower. I need to determine if a roll bar will work. Here are two possibilities:

Option A. Assuming something like the Viking 7 900kg 5.2kg 7,000kg (15,432 lbs) 20- 30ft. 513 cm2 $229 Est. Holding Power 1980 lbs. Storm 42 knts 1400-1800 lbs. (ok) Violent Storm 60knts 2800-3600 lbs (not adequate) and the rest of the gear would be:
with 30' x 1/4" G43 chain, 22 lbs, 2600 working load limit
with 200' x 1/2" 12-strand anchor line.

Option B. Assuming something like the Viking 10 1,900kg 9.5kg 10,000kg 30- 40ft. 743 cm2 $339 Est. Holding Power 4180 lbs (Storm 42 knts 1400-1800 lbs) (ok) Violent Storm 60knts 2800-3600 lbs (ok) and the rest of the gear would be:
with 30' x 5/16" G43 chain, 31 lbs, 3900 working load limit
with 200' x 5/8" 12-strand anchor line.

I am thinking of replacing the 25lb Danforth with Fortress FX23 and a new length of chain, keeping the existing 200' of 1/2" 3-strand.

Windlass
With no windlass at present, the question arises, what would the best windlass solution be for this boat? 700 or 1000 lbs? What type for durability and longevity? ... and to keep the weight on the bow light? (I am not adverse to continuing to haul the anchor by hand, so long as it is not much more than the 22 lbs we have now.

Looking for some objective suggestions.

[Don C L]

I didn't realize that the Bristol 32 had so much displacement packed into a 22' waterline. Are you sure it is that much? I can certainly understand your desire to keep the weight in the bow low, but I think I'd have 100' of chain out there just for the advantage of chafe resistance, not just on rocks or coral, but debris and old cars and such. With 100' you can still have say 130' feet total out, which will give you decent scope in say 25' of water. For 12,500# I'd probably prefer 5/16". I have 100' on mine and I have 250' more chain stored over the keel for ballast and in case I ever find myself in a hurricane... which is highly unlikely! I used to have 45' of chain and then one day I anchored in a place that I discovered had rock outcrops and my three-strand was leaning on some. I was lucky, there was no damage to the rode, but it certainly changed my priorities regarding weight in the bow. I have no windlass, but I am pulling up maybe 30' of chain and a 20# anchor, so I am still ok with that. In a few more years, probably not.

[Orion Jim]

My bower is a Spade galvanized 33# anchor attached with two Crosby 7/16” G-209A forged anchor shackles to 110’ of Acco 5/16” galvanized grade 43 (G4) hi test chain. The chain is spliced to 115’ of New England Ropes 5/8” three strand nylon line.
My kedge is a Mantus galvanized 25# anchor attached with two Crosby 7/16” G-209A forged anchor shackles to 20’ of Acco 5/16” galvanized grade 43 (G4) hi test chain spliced to 175’ of New England Ropes 1/2” three strand nylon line.
I have a Lofrans Royal manual windlass, which I rarely use. This combination has kept me safe from New England to Bermuda.
We have a very similar hull shape and displacement. I consider my ground tackle my life insurance.

[rgleason]

Thank you both Dan and Jim. I will consider your points.

Rated Displacement is 10800 to 11000 or 11,200 (I've forgotten). There were two versions and we are a later version. I've added some for our stuff.

[Manateeman]

Bristol 32 is a keeper...nice boat built strong by great guys.
We’ve seen a small anchor platform but never a true bowsprit but no matter.
Please read our post on the Kodiak way to storm anchor. Your boat is strong enough to add an eye, or better two plates, right at the waterline where you can attach your snubber block.
This will keep her nose from diving under the anchor chain. She will ride up and over waves rather than into them.
Our storm anchors are Fortress FX 120. Big is never big enough.
Nothing too strong ever broke as they say in Maine.
Merry Christmas
The manatee crew.

[skipmac]

Hi rgleason,

First two boats were similar size to yours, a fairly light Morgan OI36 and a moderate displacement 34' cruiser/racer. After a couple of years cruising on each I upgraded to 35 lb anchors and felt like that was the optimal size. Of course that was well before the new gen anchors and pretty much the only options were Danforth and plow. Still even in new gen anchors weight matters and I would go with something in the mid 30s minimum weight.

I would absolutely upgrade the Danforth to a Fortress. Best straight line holding power of any anchor in sand or mud. Main downsides, doesn't penetrate grass or hard bottoms well and doesn't reset as well as other anchors in a wind or current shift.

For line I like 6 or 8 braid but have all chain on my current boat and love it. But part of the reason is because it works so well in a windlass so may not be as important for you. However if you boat in areas with rocky or coral bottom all chain eliminates the line chafing through on a hard spot.

Regarding windlass Maxwell is highly regarded and what I would go with if I had to replace my current windlass. If the weight is more than you like a manual windlass would address that.

[boatman61]

On my old Longbow which is a similar length I carried 200ft of chain for the bow anchor (Bruce) and 50ft of chain plus 150ft of multi-plait for the kedge (Fortress), she performed just fine with all that chain up forward... and the 150L water tank which was under the fore berth.
Go all chain up front..

[rgleason]

From the boat spreadsheet.
LOL 32'-1" LWL
22' Beam
9'-5" Draft
4'-8" Ballast
3,900 Displacement
10,800 Sail Area
491-516 sf D/L
473 Heavy B/D
.353 Moderate
CR 35

Also from sailboatdata I had some earlier data that indicated 11,000+ lbs, and the boat was built over many years. In any case it is narrow compared to today's yachts and probably displaces about 11,500 lb loaded.

Since I am considering new rode I'd better seriously look at windlass because they are very particular. However Maxwell has a new Chainwheel design called Waveguide which might make things simpler. I have absolutely no experience with Windlass.

I found and am considering the Lofrans Royal Manual Windlass 404725 8mm 10kg 550 EU which Weighs 20 lbs It is a very nice simple and reliable windlass with no need for wiring. Lots of advantages there. I like the design of their horizontal and vertical windlass, but they require 3 strand nylon, while Maxwell is more flexible, allowing 8-plait.

For the same amount of weight on the bow, I was taken by the Maxwell Anchormax Capstan which weighs 17.6 lbs. however it is not used for chain. If it could be used for chain, that is what I would get, because I don't think I need everything stowed immediately.

I don't mind deploying the anchor manually, in fact I would rather do that, but I might need some help getting the chain and anchor up some day.

However right now we just motor slowly, following the anchor line, haul the line in and coil it to dry (tied down of course), leaving the 10' of chain on the deck. It is usually the last part that requires some effort for breakout and cleaning. For breakout, I just take a turn on the cleat and let the boat do the work. Once the line has dried I stow it along with the chain. Getting between 30'-100' of chain may/will change the routine.

I don't know if a vertical or horizontal windlass would be better. Both will fit I believe with adequate room below, and I have a bulkhead at the V berth for structure. The issue really is maintenance and longevity, I believe, assuming a good installation. I don't want to be replacing parts or the entire unit 5 years from now. Water and motors are not compatible, and the motor and bushings are either dependent on housing enclosure or the deck seal. I also am concerned about the foredeck awash and water getting in through the drop hole. I really do not know enough about this. In any case a windlass manual or electric is between 17-27lbs.

The idea of carrying an extra 100' (1/4"G43=73lbs or 5/16"G43=103lbs) of chain on top of the keel water tank in a shallow box along with a big Fortress, for the really bad storm or hurricane does appeal to me. However I think John Harries (MorgansCloud) would want the chain easily and readily available at the bow. I assume this emergency operation would probably require it be fit between the bower anchor and the existing bow chain with wired shackles at both ends and that the weather might not be very cooperative.

I really like Manateeman's idea of attaching the snubber at the waterline, using the bobstay plate (beefed up with a stout welded eye). In fact it would be very useful for hurricanes when on the mooring (I've considered this for many years.) I need to read about the Kodiak way to storm anchor.

It looks like I am going to have to consider Boatman61's suggestion to just load her down in the bow (100lbs chain + 25lb anchor + 25 lbs 250' rope + 25 lbs of windlass= 175lbs) along with that 30 gal (?) water tank that we never use because our keel tank is so ample. It is easily the equivalent of me standing a foot or two back from the bow. Presently in short chop of the exact right period and angle, we start hobby horsing, it happens seldom, and when it does I crack off 5 degrees and everything is right again. I suppose the added weight will just change that characteristic somehow, but how?

Thank you for all the good input. There are a lot of moving parts, but I think we do definitely want 5/16" G43 chain with a working load limit (WLL) of 3900 lbs. for bad storms of 60 knots, and the anchor rope would be sized for what the selected windlass requires. The anchor selection would also follow.

John Harries advises "BBB or G43, the MBL is three times the WLL" (which is not heat treated). ..G70 chain used for trucking is heat treated and the safety margin is a very conservative 4:1, but it is more expensive and more difficult to adapt in marine use. Windlasses generally seem to use G43 chain.

[rgleason]

Sorry mislabeled displacement 10500.
This is a good thread. https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...d.php?t=256142

Perhaps I should use 1/4" HT G43 chain intead of 5/16" after all it does have strenth beyond WLL 2600 lbs and how often would 2600 lbs be exceeded?

BTW New England Ropes and Sampson make chafe guard sleeves which might help the first part of the anchor line.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Perhaps I should use 1/4" HT G43 chain intead of 5/16" after all it does have strenth beyond WLL 2600 lbs and how often would 2600 lbs be exceeded.

If only I could find a 6mm Gypsy for our SL Windlass we would swop the 8mm for 6mm and save a lot of weight. Going G40 or G43 would give us a minimum breaking strain of 2400 kgs, that's half the weight of the boat and for a 50m length a big weight saving. Worth doing the sums to see the difference in weight. No problem with a manual windlass in this size of yacht, they are simple and just work. In calm conditions, I just pull the chain in by hand, only needing the windlass if the tide is running or its windy.

The original Rocna with roll bar fitted the anchor roller well, the later Vulcan wobbles at the moment so needs a bit of work. Mantus make a bracket that would solve this and works with a 12kg Vulcan, or do as we do and put the anchor in the anchor locker if you can, its safe there.

FX23 is huge, we had one and couldn't store it anywhere in the v berths or saloon seats it was so long. the FX16 will be fine and fitted much more easily. We also carry a cheap 8kg danforth as a kedge to stop the stern swinging.

Pete

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Sorry mislabeled displacement 10500.
This is a good thread. https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...d.php?t=256142

Perhaps I should use 1/4" HT G43 chain intead of 5/16" after all it does have strenth beyond WLL 2600 lbs and how often would 2600 lbs be exceeded?

BTW New England Ropes and Sampson make chafe guard sleeves which might help the first part of the anchor line.

1/4" HT is likely plenty for your boat. I use 5/16 on my 38 footer at 27k lbs and others use it on boats bigger than mine.

As far as the chafe sleeve, it's a good idea, but I don't think it'll pull well through a windlass. Personally, I'd figure out how much weight you can reasonably handle and then figure how much chain that equates to. That'll be the best you can do for chafe protection. 1/4" HT chain is about 0.7 lbs per foot.

[deblen]

I've had excellent experience in Maine/New Brunswick with hi-quality,medium lay 3 strand nylon with 20 ft of chain. We don't have the coral & sharp rocks of other areas. The nylon is lighter & can be hand pulled.
I have found soft lay "yachty" rope to chafe easily-especially the plaited varieties.-Just my experience-YMMV


Buy a 100 fa reel. 12500 lb test. I use 5/8 for my 10,000lb boat for anchor & docklines.


https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/prod...el--42841.html

[rgleason]

@deblen I am all ears here "...found soft lay "yachty" rope to chafe easily-especially the plaited varietie" right now 20' sounds good to me... and if I ever go to coral areas, I will add 50'. I like the rope reel idea.

@rslifkin So it will be... "1/4" HT is likely plenty for your boat. I use 5/16 on my 38 footer at 27k lbs and others use it on boats bigger than mine. " If I don't get a windlass I suppose the chafe sleeve could be done, but it would be easier to just rely on the chain. 30' x 1/4" HT G43 x .73 lb/ft = about 22 lbs. which I can handle easily, so can the boat. The 30' x 5/8" HT G43 x 1.03 lbs/ft = 30.9 lbs

BTW the worst chafe I get is from idiot power boaters who don't know what scope is and drive across all bows waving merrily. They are lucky they don't damage their lower unit! I've used bumpers, kedges and screaming and yelling when I catch them, but there are too many of them to train properly and I have given up. Chain would be wonderful for that purpose alone, ...but not on this boat.

@Pete7 My friend, Thanks for the confirmation on 6mm. and I find this very useful
"No problem with a manual windlass in this size of yacht, they are simple and just work. In calm conditions, I just pull the chain in by hand, only needing the windlass if the tide is running or its windy."

Also good:
"...original Rocna with roll bar fitted the anchor roller well, the later Vulcan wobbles at the moment so needs a bit of work. Mantus make a bracket that would solve this and works with a 12kg Vulcan, or do as we do and put the anchor in the anchor locker if you can, its safe there."

I did not realize this!:
"FX23 is huge, we had one and couldn't store it anywhere in the v berths or saloon seats it was so long. the FX16 will be fine and fitted much more easily. We also carry a cheap 8kg danforth as a kedge to stop the stern swinging."

Thank you all, you've all been very helpful. I think things are coming together. It seems like Maxwell electric is 27lbs and Lofrans manual is 20 lbs. Its too bad someone doesn't make a good lightweight manual windlass. It can't be that hard to make. But maybe I just continue using my engine and manual recovery, it really is the best most sophisticated simple system. No heavy wires, or messy electrical, no failed or rusted windlass, or ridiculous snarls and jambs, and I get to dry my anchor line on deck before stowing! All very big pluses! Small boats are much easier.

[rgleason]

Pete7 what is the length and displacement of your boat?

[rgleason]

8 plait vs 3 strand anchor line. I would like to know more from those familiar with both!

What I think about 8 plait:
Good soft hand
Coils and stows like a charm

What I am concerned about:
Not as durable to chafe.
Snags and snarls
Catching strands on things
Longevity

My current line has lasted 40 years and should really be replaced, but I want durable replacement!