anchor thread (Yeah!) Spade, Kobra 2, Bugel, one most go, which one?

[Franziska]

Hi,


Background:
-Slightly overweight 35ft cruising catamaran
-About 300 nights anchoring per year


Four anchors aboard:
-20kg Spade
-16kg Kobra 2
-16kg Bugel with Rollbar
-Fortress anchor as backup


We have a boat jumble coming up and I am thinking of reducing weight.
We will not buy any other anchor, but, will sell one.


We will keep the Spade, it's our primary and very reliable.
The Fortress is light enough to keep it.


Out of the Kobra 2 and the Bugel, which one would you keep?


I have the impression the Bugel with it's sharp 2D pointed blade like fluke settles better in a grass bottom than the other two with their 3D tip shapes.
(I am aware that we should not anchor there but situations can arise where it might be necessary).


Spade and Kobra 2 seem to overlap in their usage conditions.


So, I slightly tend towards selling the Kobra2.


The remaining one amongst Kobra2 or Bugel will be used as:
-Aternative to the Spade for grass bottom

-Stern anchor
-Reserve anchor


Any thoughts on this?
Maybe Steve from Panope can chime in too?


Thanks for your thoughts!

[Don C L]

If it were me I think I'd go with the Bugel. The Delta/plow design never made much sense to me. I'd rather have an anchor that could penetrate grass and dig in and I THINK the Bugel will be better at that, but I look forward to Steve's opinion! What I have seen plows good at though was to jam between large boulders (and then get retrieved with a trip line.) I'd go with the Fortress for the stern anchor.

[Shrew]

I'd keep the Bugel and get rid of the plow (Kobra 2). The Bugel is sort of the founder of the 'new school' anchors. I do think that Rocna improved the Bugel design.

The plow design was really meant to be pulled through the earth, not stop and hold in the earth.

I'd use the Spade as my primary bower. The Bugel as a back-up and the Fortress as a stern or kedge anchor.

[CarlF]

I would just keep the Spade and the Fortress. The other two aren’t giving you anything you don’t already have.

The Spade’s only “problem” bottom type is soupy mud. The Fortress is better than any other anchor in that bottom. It can also be set as a 2nd anchor - even rowed out in a dinghy. As a 2nd anchor the pull will always be from one direction - which the Fortress prefers.

If you just had to have a 3rd anchor, I would get another Fortress one size down to be easier to deploy as a kedge. Would still be plenty strong as an anchor in a good bottom.

Also only have chain for the primary anchor. The Fortress holds fine with no chain at 7:1 scope. Saves a lot of weight.

[Wandering1]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I would just keep the Spade and the Fortress. The other two aren’t giving you anything you don’t already have.

The Spade’s only “problem” bottom type is soupy mud. The Fortress is better than any other anchor in that bottom. It can also be set as a 2nd anchor - even rowed out in a dinghy. As a 2nd anchor the pull will always be from one direction - which the Fortress prefers.

If you just had to have a 3rd anchor, I would get another Fortress one size down to be easier to deploy as a kedge. Would still be plenty strong as an anchor in a good bottom.

Also only have chain for the primary anchor. The Fortress holds fine with no chain at 7:1 scope. Saves a lot of weight.

I was about to say the exact same thing. I would add that having sailed a 37ft cat as our previous boat, I learnt how important it was to keep a small cat light. We had a main Spade anchor and an aluminium kedge. There was no need to carry any more anchors and certainly not add any more weight.

[Jim Cate]

There was no need to carry any more anchors and certainly not add any more weight.

Twice in our years of cruising we've had to abandon an anchor. I was damn glad that I had a backup hook of nearly equal holding power and adaptability. Carrying such a spare is a good idea IMO, especially if you sail in places where there are no marinas, chandleries or mooring fields handy to bail you out of trouble if you lose your bower. The added weight won't seem so onerous in such situations.

Jim

[JPA Cate]

I would ditch the Kobra, also. Looks too much like a Delta, and they tend to drag a lot in the Med. Noelex77 posted a thread called "Photos of Anchors Setting"--or not. https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ng-126073.html

Ann

[Wandering1]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Twice in our years of cruising we've had to abandon an anchor. I was damn glad that I had a backup hook of nearly equal holding power and adaptability. Carrying such a spare is a good idea IMO, especially if you sail in places where there are no marinas, chandleries or mooring fields handy to bail you out of trouble if you lose your bower. The added weight won't seem so onerous in such situations.

Jim

In 35 years of sailing, I have never abandoned an anchor. We do carry two sets of dive gear onboard. I had to free an anchor once in 2005.i would rather have dive gear for recreational use and the ability to free an anchor than another anchor I would never use. In an emergency, a Fortress is a good back up for us

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Don C L

.......... but I look forward to Steve's opinion!........

I've got nothing.

No experience with the Bugel.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Wandering1

In 35 years of sailing, I have never abandoned an anchor. We do carry two sets of dive gear onboard. I had to free an anchor once in 2005.i would rather have dive gear for recreational use and the ability to free an anchor than another anchor I would never use. In an emergency, a Fortress is a good back up for us

Yes, having scuba gear on board is a good thing, and that's how I recovered one abandoned anchor when it was safe to return and dive. But that was not until the next day and a good backup was appreciated.

The other situation was in the Gordon river in western Tasmania. I inadvertently dropped into a submerged tree and was not able to free the anchor by all the usual means. The depth was about 50 feet, there was about 2 knots of current, there was zero visibility in the water, it was very cold water and the possibility of becoming fouled in the tree myself added to the decision to abandon the anchor. Of course, being 80 years old at the time had reduced my courage and strength somewhat. Our backup anchor sufficed for the fortnight that passed before we could replace the bower.

We have also spent considerable time cruising in crocodile ridden waters. We know of one yottie who was taken whilst snorkeling to see how his anchor was set in the Solomons. Not a risk to be taken lightly.

And yes, one can use a Fortress as a backup, but we all know of their shortcomings for use as a bower anchor.

We all have to decide how to allocate the available storage and payload available to us on our individual vessels. I'm happy with our setup, others may find different solutions that work for them,

Jim

[Tin Tin]

We had a 20Kg Kobra (delta like knockoff) that came with the boat. We went to a popular anchorage which was mud/sand - that anchor would not hold, it initially dragged twice with plenty of scope, there were 20 other boats there none of whom were dragging, wind about 12Kn + 1.0kn current. I swapped it out for a 25Kg Rocna and in the same anchorage it is immovable and actually hard to retrieve. When we back up after setting we almost fall over on deck when it pulls up, the Kobra had no effect like this at all. We have been anchoring out over 25 years on different boats and I think our old CQR in 2001 (on a different boat) did a better job - once in a crowded anchorage it dragged in sand on a 3:1 scope and a 6ft tide - so not surprising.

[Dirk01]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Hi,


Background:
-Slightly overweight 35ft cruising catamaran
-About 300 nights anchoring per year


Four anchors aboard:
-20kg Spade
-16kg Kobra 2
-16kg Bugel with Rollbar
-Fortress anchor as backup


We have a boat jumble coming up and I am thinking of reducing weight.
We will not buy any other anchor, but, will sell one.


We will keep the Spade, it's our primary and very reliable.
The Fortress is light enough to keep it.


Out of the Kobra 2 and the Bugel, which one would you keep?


I have the impression the Bugel with it's sharp 2D pointed blade like fluke settles better in a grass bottom than the other two with their 3D tip shapes.
(I am aware that we should not anchor there but situations can arise where it might be necessary).


Spade and Kobra 2 seem to overlap in their usage conditions.


So, I slightly tend towards selling the Kobra2.


The remaining one amongst Kobra2 or Bugel will be used as:
-Aternative to the Spade for grass bottom

-Stern anchor
-Reserve anchor


Any thoughts on this?
Maybe Steve from Panope can chime in too?


Thanks for your thoughts!

Look at Practical Sailor and search "Excel Anchor Offers Case Study in Design - Practical Sailor"

Cheers
Dirk

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by Dirk01

Look at Practical Sailor and search "Excel Anchor Offers Case Study in Design - Practical Sailor"

Cheers
Dirk

Thanks, still I don't get what this has to do with my question.
As stated in my first post we are not going to buy another anchor.
Not a Delta, not an Excel, not a Rocna, neither any other.


We are very happy with our Spade, it just the question which of the others we should part with.


Based on other answers and my own thoughts I do think now that we will sell the Kobra 2 as it overlaps very much with under what condition the Spade works well.


By the way the Kobra 2 has been achieving quite good results on a test carried out by German magazine "Die Yacht" few years ago and is an anchor of the generation of high holding power family with it's leaded tip.

[Scubaseas]

Another vote for just keeping the Spade and the Fortress. Fortress works best in the thin mud out of all anchors you have. Fortress also is easiest to row out for a kedge if needed. Spade works for me 98% of the time.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I would just keep the Spade and the Fortress. The other two aren’t giving you anything you don’t already have.

The Spade’s only “problem” bottom type is soupy mud. The Fortress is better than any other anchor in that bottom. It can also be set as a 2nd anchor - even rowed out in a dinghy. As a 2nd anchor the pull will always be from one direction - which the Fortress prefers.

If you just had to have a 3rd anchor, I would get another Fortress one size down to be easier to deploy as a kedge. Would still be plenty strong as an anchor in a good bottom.

Also only have chain for the primary anchor. The Fortress holds fine with no chain at 7:1 scope. Saves a lot of weight.

What the man said

Get rid of both of them. All the more, on a catamaran.

I have an Ultra as best bower. A 45kg Spade as a spare anchor. And a Fortress kedge.

But I'm a 54' mono which can afford the weight of a spare bower anchor. Kept in the bilge below the waterline, by the way, broken down.

I would never need the spare anchor except in case of losing the best bower. The OP's Spade and Fortress covers every possible use case, and that's all she needs.