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Old 08-12-2022, 16:47   #1
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Anchor system upgrade

I have an S2-35C sailboat, 35', 14,000#. I'm using a 44# Rocna connected to braided anchor line with 10' of 3/8" chain. From 2007 until last fall, I'd been on the Chesapeake so anchoring was not a big deal, typical anchorages were no more than 10-15'.

I'm now in FL with plans to head off to the Caribbean where anchoring will be beyond vital. Typical of most 80's coastal cruisers, anchoring was an after though at best, no windlass, shallow anchor well etc. Further complicating matters is a stroke which left me with paralysis in my left arm. I've not tried, but I am pretty sure I'm not getting the anchor up one handed. This leads to a problem to solve.

I think a horizontal windlass would be the best choice as this will add a few inches above the anchor locker. The leads to the problem of the windlass being mounted just aft the anchor locker. I have seen pics of what appear to be older designs that have a guide directing the rhode forward the windlass into the locker.


So, questions and I am a firm believer in overkill.

1. What is the most bullet proof windlass brand/model?
2. Rhode, I'de love all chain but think weight in the bow could be an issue.
a. Stainless Steel vs G-70?
b. Could I drop to 1/4" of either to get more chain for the same weight?
3. Any ideas on directing the rhode forward into the locker
4. Ive seen pics of windlass mounted on the anchor locker door which seem less than ideal. Anyone done so?

Ok, let the debate begin. I am open to other ideas/solutions as well.
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Old 08-12-2022, 18:04   #2
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Re: Anchor system upgrade

First, sorry to hear about your stroke. Good on you for making the most of it and bouncing back. Will try to answer your questions in order.
1. What is the most bullet proof windlass brand/model?
- I don’t know
2. Rhode, I'de love all chain but think weight in the bow could be an issue.
- (one-handed) all chain with windless is IMHO the only way to go.
a. Stainless Steel vs G-70?
- G4 or G70 will do just fine. 5/16” is ideal for your boat size it weighs about 1.1# per foot
b. Could I drop to 1/4" of either to get more chain for the same weight?
- yes you could, but I wouldn’t recommend it for your size boat. Use a snubber too.
3. Any ideas on directing the rhode forward into the locker
- no. That depends on your boat’s setup.
4. Ive seen pics of windlass mounted on the anchor locker door which seem less than ideal.
- That’s not strong enough for even light conditions — a windlass will place heavy loads on the mounting area. It should be reinforced beneath the deck bolts.
Anyone done so?
- I hope not. It’s a stupid idea
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Old 08-12-2022, 20:48   #3
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Re: Anchor system upgrade

Would you consider modifying your anchor locker? If you like the boat and it otherwise suits your needs, and you are determined to keep sailing (a hearty congrats by the way), then maybe changing things a bit up front so that you can have the amount of chain you require, and the windlass location that is ideal, may be the way to go? Might it be costly or difficult, yes, but would it be worth it so you can keep a boat you love and do the kind of sailing you want to do? Only you can decided.


In particular I'm thinking: Is there a way to deepen the anchor locker to hold more chain? Is there any reason the lid needs to open? Perhaps it can be strongly secured, or completely glassed, to support the forces of the windlass, allowing it to be mounted above the locker instead of having to come up with some kind of redirect method.


I don't know if you have the skills for this, but no doubt someone does. Sometimes, for me, envisioning my ideal situation and then researching what it would take to make that happen turns out to be the best route, or, it shows me alternatives that I hadn't considered yet.
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Old 08-12-2022, 21:09   #4
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Re: Anchor system upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekton73 View Post
Would you consider modifying your anchor locker? If you like the boat and it otherwise suits your needs, and you are determined to keep sailing (a hearty congrats by the way), then maybe changing things a bit up front so that you can have the amount of chain you require, and the windlass location that is ideal, may be the way to go? Might it be costly or difficult, yes, but would it be worth it so you can keep a boat you love and do the kind of sailing you want to do? Only you can decided.


In particular I'm thinking: Is there a way to deepen the anchor locker to hold more chain? Is there any reason the lid needs to open? Perhaps it can be strongly secured, or completely glassed, to support the forces of the windlass, allowing it to be mounted above the locker instead of having to come up with some kind of redirect method.


I don't know if you have the skills for this, but no doubt someone does. Sometimes, for me, envisioning my ideal situation and then researching what it would take to make that happen turns out to be the best route, or, it shows me alternatives that I hadn't considered yet.
Unfortunately no, it sits above the v-berth. Could it physically be modified? Yes but the would be a v-berth for very small kids.

I think the least amount of redesign and work would be a horizontal deck mounted just aft the locker. The locker can't be sealed, otherwise no way to deal with a jam.
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Old 08-12-2022, 21:20   #5
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Re: Anchor system upgrade

Perhaps an angled hawse pipe? It would help others give relevant advice if you can post pictures of your boat’s setup above and below decks.
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Old 09-12-2022, 04:45   #6
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Re: Anchor system upgrade

Without adequate fall, your anchor rode will pyramid and jam the hawsepipe. A shallow deck locker with windlass above is a surefire way to assure this will happen.

Would it be possible to relocate anchor locker to beneath v-berth and use a length of 2" pipe to connect between deck and locker? I realize the pipe would interfere with thr v-berth, but given your cruising aspirations, may be an acceptable compromise.
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Old 09-12-2022, 06:56   #7
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Re: Anchor system upgrade

I did a search on your boat make/model and found this video that shows it fairly well. https://youtu.be/uMaNiP3zR7s
I think a good fiberglass guy might be able to modify the anchor locker hatch cover to divide it so a portion (perhaps no more than half at the fore or aft end, or one side) would be solid enough (reinforced by a stringer) to mount the windlass.
The other half of the equation is getting enough depth so a hawspipe would reliably drop the chain in. Stainless chain is more slippery than galvanized, and doesn’t tend to pile up (“castle”) as high or steeply as galvanized. Castling causes jam ups.
What’s behind the bulkhead that’s ahead of the v-berth? Can it be utilized?
The anchor locker must be able to drain, also, so the bottom of it must be above the waterline and weep holes must be provided in your design. You cannot let it drain into the bilge, because it will be muddy water. Some bottoms are very stinky mud.
Edit - if you use the area ahead of the bulkhead, you can cut an inspection hatch large enough to reach into that area. Assume the bulkhead is structural, so don’t make that opening so large it weakens compression resistance of the bulkhead. Perhaps a 12” circular port?
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Old 09-12-2022, 07:17   #8
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Re: Anchor system upgrade

I just looked again at that video. Now I see that the bulkhead I asked about IS the anchor locker (in the video at 5:30) but I also see at 5:51 that there’s room under the berth to make a locker.
Perhaps a hawspipe could be routed to minimally interfere with the v-berth, and route chain beneath the berth.
If that area is below the waterline and can’t drain overboard, you’ll need to come up with a way to contain, drain, and clean it without too much hassle.
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Old 09-12-2022, 07:40   #9
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Re: Anchor system upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
Without adequate fall, your anchor rode will pyramid and jam the hawsepipe. A shallow deck locker with windlass above is a surefire way to assure this will happen.

Would it be possible to relocate anchor locker to beneath v-berth and use a length of 2" pipe to connect between deck and locker? I realize the pipe would interfere with thr v-berth, but given your cruising aspirations, may be an acceptable compromise.
No, aside from the fact that my HVAC is under the v-berth, that area is sealed off to the bilge and don't think I'd want water and muck from the rhode collecting there.
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Old 09-12-2022, 07:50   #10
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Re: Anchor system upgrade

I think a good fiberglass guy might be able to modify the anchor locker hatch cover to divide it.

--> I've seen pics of this on a few other boats including a sister boat to mine.


Whatís behind the bulkhead thatís ahead of the v-berth? Can it be utilized?

---> If you are referring to the bulkhead above the v-berth, that is just dressing to hide the anchor locker. There really is no way to gain any depth or size to the locker without making the v-berth unusable for adults.


The anchor locker must be able to drain, also, so the bottom of it must be above the waterline and weep holes must be provided in your design.

---> The locker its self is a molded fiberglass pan the is 3" or so inside the hull port, stbd and bow. At the bow end of the locker there is a tube connecting the lowest part of the locker to an exit on the bow to drain. This exits a foot or so above the waterline.
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Old 09-12-2022, 07:55   #11
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Re: Anchor system upgrade

I just looked again at that video. Now I see that the bulkhead I asked about IS the anchor locker (in the video at 5:30)

---> It's not a bulkhead, it's just a thin sheet of teak plywood to hide the anchor locker.


but I also see at 5:51 that thereís room under the berth to make a locker.
Perhaps a hawspipe could be routed to minimally interfere with the v-berth, and route chain beneath the berth.
If that area is below the waterline and canít drain overboard, youíll need to come up with a way to contain, drain, and clean it without too much hassle.

---> that would definitely be an issue as it is below the waterline.
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Old 09-12-2022, 12:52   #12
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Re: Anchor system upgrade

I just talked to the fiberglass guy in the marina who looked and the locker and said he can modify the locker, split down the middle and glass in one side and reinforce it to support the strain of the windlass including glassing in a block to give another inch or so of height.

Now the question on the windlass. I like the idea of a vertical but from what I've read they seem to be more prone to jamming, plus a horizontal would give me another few inches of height.

Thoughts?
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Old 09-12-2022, 15:15   #13
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Re: Anchor system upgrade

The extra height of the horizontal windlass does not really help because ...


... The chain and rope only wrap though 90 degrees instead of ~ 180 degrees. Thus, once you consider the capstan equation (Google that), the holding power is only about 1/3 unless there is more drop. So you actually need more drop for good rope grip.


Sorry for the bad news, but I a friend that thought that. My vertical windlass with less drop worked better.


You really need to make room for 3 feet of drop if any way possible.
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Old 09-12-2022, 17:07   #14
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Re: Anchor system upgrade

I basically went through the same exercise when we first bought our present boat in 2014. The windlass was original from 1983, and the chain made a red cloud of dust when gravity deployed.

I figured the 'most bulletproof' windlass was the Lighthouse 1501. I still do. Look at the specs. Realize they refurbish gypsies for 50% of new cost, and will rebuild the windlass [in a few decades] for %25 of new cost.

They provide a SS backing plate [custom for a little more...] with welded SS tubing for affixing 1.5" 2" ID exhaust hose for directing the rode into the anchor locker. It works very well.

Here are more details with photos and links about that project, and our ground tackle selection process and inventory if you are interested.

Best wishes with your health, and configuring your vessel for many more years of comfortable enjoyment.

Cheers! Bill
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Old 09-12-2022, 18:15   #15
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Re: Anchor system upgrade

My shorter than desired chain was pyramiding and causing problems. Though expensive, I went to stainless and now now pyramiding, even with 100m of chain.
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