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Old 20-03-2011, 08:35   #16
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Re: Anchor Sizing - Rocna 20 on 36ft boat

If you Google up Craig's List Nationwide Search, you'll find a brand new 44# S100 Spade anchor for sale for $500.00. These come up occasionally as well as other brands including Rocna and Delta and are worth checking out. Between ebay, Craig's List and close outs at West Marine, I've literally saved thousands of dollars purchasing anchors. The cost of shipping anchors is very reasonable and do not require any special packaging or handling by UPS as they are shipped "as is". When it comes to anchors, avoid paying retail.
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Old 20-03-2011, 08:50   #17
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Re: Anchor Sizing - Rocna 20 on 36ft boat

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I wouldn't bother with the Delta if I were you. A 25kg Delta came with our boat; we had lots of trouble with it. Trouble which disappeared when we fitted a (admittedly much larger) Rocna.

If I were you, I would scrape up and go one size bigger than what Rocna recommend, provided that size fits on your bow roller. Bigger is always better where anchors are concerned, and there's no such thing as too good holding.

Like Moondancer, we use a 55kg (121 pound) Rocna. It doesn't fit perfectly and it's not too easy to handle, but it is worth it in spades. The security is priceless.
Thank you for your comments.

If I may point out, looking at the charts (Sizing Chart » Rocna Anchors), my impression is that you have the recommended size. I see that a Moody 54 has a displacement of 44tons which puts you square in the Rocna 55 recommendation. If I extrapolate from that, it would appear that the 20 is more than sufficient for my needs (because my boat is borderline with the 15KG). It is good to know.

Andrew
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Old 20-03-2011, 09:04   #18
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Re: Anchor Sizing - Rocna 20 on 36ft boat

25 Kg Rocna on our 42 ft boat, per Rocna's sizing chart, and it works great in all conditions. By extrapolation, I would say the 20 Kg would be good for you.

Colin
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Old 20-03-2011, 09:10   #19
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Re: Anchor Sizing - Rocna 20 on 36ft boat

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Andrew,

I too have a 36T and chose the Rocna 15. While a 20 is "optimal" I have purposely put my boat in a 55 knot blow to test it and the 15kg is more than adequate. Rocna is very conservative on sizing and a 20kg is a darn mooring for a 36T..

I rarely use my windlass so for 98% of the anchoring we do the 15kg has been spot on. It's a HUGE 15kg anchor, surface area wise, compared to the old school stuff. FWIW a good friend used my Manson 25 on his 36 footer for two years and weathered multiple storms before buying his own 35 pounder. He never once dragged an inch. If you use the windlass then the 20kg would be optimal but for up to 55-60 in fairly exposed conditions I have seen no need to go to a 20kg for our 36T. If heading off for extended cruising away from our home waters I would probably opt for the 20kg.

Thank you very much for your comments. That is exactly what I was looking for. I had actually misread one of your earlier posts and thought you went with the Rocna 33 (ie. 33KG), not the 33lb Rocna. That was the reason I posted this thread....oops

I saw your post on SailNet (Installing an anchor roller / CS-36T - SailNet Community) how you added an anchor roller. Was that the only option available to you to get it to fit? Also, did you install your windlass? I am installing a vertical windlass and I am having the devil of a time trying to figure out were it should go. Feel free to PM me if you feel this takes the discussion off topic.

Andrew
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Old 20-03-2011, 09:13   #20
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Re: Anchor Sizing - Rocna 20 on 36ft boat

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Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer View Post
I don't have a working camera at the moment but the link shows a stowed rocna.
Take your pick:
Category:Rocna bow compatibility (Rocna Knowledge Base)
Maybe the OP can find a similar set-up. Edit: ref Maine Sail's boat.

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Originally Posted by ADMPRTR View Post
I wonder if you could comment on the Practical Sailor tests, which while generally good, also had some negative comments regarding your product (e.g. short scope failing to set). I have also read that the roll bar can be a detriment to setting in soft mud.
I don't have much positive to say about PS unfortunately, although the test you're referring to was conducted by Powerboat Reports not their sister publication. The Rocna tested was a very early prototype, but that notwithstanding there were only single pulls and a bizarre pull methodology that didn't really measure holding power at all. Most of the anchors tested actually hit their 500 lb maximum load limit and conclusions from the data require a bit of slightly imaginative mental gymnastics. The same 'test' concluded with a perfectly straight face that for some anchors a short scope gave superior holding to long scope. Etc.

The roll-bar thing is a non issue, something latched onto by competitors. Look for independent feedback on the matter. The roll-bar is at the very heel of the fluke and obviously raised high up; by the time it's offering the supposed detriment, the fluke is already well set. Additionally, it is angled in such a way that the soil flowing into it is deflected slightly upward, which if anything really assists holding power... although the effect either way is utterly trivial. Watch the demo video on the Rocna site which shows the anchor disappear out of sight in soft mud over clay.
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Old 20-03-2011, 09:14   #21
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Re: Anchor Sizing - Rocna 20 on 36ft boat

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Originally Posted by ActiveCaptain View Post
Get the Rocna. The size seems pretty good - it would be nice if the link on the Rocna page worked craigsmith - it seems broken on the Rocna page today.

If for any reason you wanted a larger Rocna in the future, it would be much easier to sell your Rocna 20 (in my opinion) because it's highly desired. I have a feeling the 20 will provide plenty of security for you though.
Thanks. I think that is what I will do. Yes, the Rocna does have a dedicated following.
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Old 20-03-2011, 09:19   #22
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Re: Anchor Sizing - Rocna 20 on 36ft boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsmith View Post
Take your pick:
Category:Rocna bow compatibility (Rocna Knowledge Base)
Maybe the OP can find a similar set-up. Edit: ref Maine Sail's boat.


I don't have much positive to say about PS unfortunately, although the test you're referring to was conducted by Powerboat Reports not their sister publication. The Rocna tested was a very early prototype, but that notwithstanding there were only single pulls and a bizarre pull methodology that didn't really measure holding power at all. Most of the anchors tested actually hit their 500 lb maximum load limit and conclusions from the data require a bit of slightly imaginative mental gymnastics. The same 'test' concluded with a perfectly straight face that for some anchors a short scope gave superior holding to long scope. Etc.

The roll-bar thing is a non issue, something latched onto by competitors. Look for independent feedback on the matter. The roll-bar is at the very heel of the fluke and obviously raised high up; by the time it's offering the supposed detriment, the fluke is already well set. Additionally, it is angled in such a way that the soil flowing into it is deflected slightly upward, which if anything really assists holding power... although the effect either way is utterly trivial. Watch the demo video on the Rocna site which shows the anchor disappear out of sight in soft mud over clay.
Thank you. The videos are very convincing, especially the one of the CQR.

The issue of the roll bar is soft mud was actually a user comment on one of the forums, as I recall.

Andrew
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Old 20-03-2011, 09:26   #23
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Re: Anchor Sizing - Rocna 20 on 36ft boat

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Originally Posted by craigsmith View Post
As the roller sees things, the profiles of the Delta and Rocna are very similar, so a pre-fabricated roller assembly intended for a Delta is a good start. The Rocna shank has a cranked-back gusset which is designed to lock the roller in the shank as well as possible. This stops the anchor moving vertically as well as is possible when pulled home.

I think he means: ideally the cheek plates would extend to meet the upper surfaces of the anchor fluke, which then eliminates the anchor from rocking on the roller. A luxury that any prefab set-up cannot provide due to the exact dimensioning required.
Do you have any roller recommendations that might fit better than others? The maximum width that I can install is 3" and I was thinking of 23" long.

Andrew
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Old 20-03-2011, 09:32   #24
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Re: Anchor Sizing - Rocna 20 on 36ft boat

Sorry no, since the issue has more to do with the boat than the anchor. As regards the anchor, as above anything that says "Delta" on it is a good start - after that, the wider the better, the more substantial the cheek plates the better, and the larger the diameter of the roller the better.

There is a guide here on designing/constructing roller assemblies if you're interested, it would give you and idea of what to look out for:
Bow roller assembly design (Rocna Knowledge Base)
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Old 20-03-2011, 09:35   #25
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Re: Anchor Sizing - Rocna 20 on 36ft boat

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Thats not a huge difference in price so I would be tempted to take the forums advice and go for the Rocna. We opted for the Delta because the Rocna is twice the Delta price in UK. Come on Craig, they are both made in China so sort your pricing out, you would sell a lot more and steal a lead on the competition.

Whilst we don't anchor if its going to be windy we have never had a problem with the Delta, although we always use lots of chain. 3 years on, the labels have faded but the galvanising is still very good. Might have to print up some new labels on a HP ink jet printer to replace them so it looks smart again, really don't like scruffy kit.

Pete
Yes, I think that is what I will do.

Prices for the Rocna here are all over the place. I have seen as much as $800 and as little as $630 for the same anchor. I guess it is the market charging what people are willing to spend. Of course, the Canadian dollar has appreciated quite a bit so that is also a factor.

Thanks,
Andrew
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Old 20-03-2011, 09:36   #26
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Re: Anchor Sizing - Rocna 20 on 36ft boat

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Originally Posted by craigsmith View Post
Sorry no, since the issue has more to do with the boat than the anchor. As regards the anchor, as above anything that says "Delta" on it is a good start - after that, the wider the better, the more substantial the cheek plates the better, and the larger the diameter of the roller the better.

There is a guide here on designing/constructing roller assemblies if you're interested, it would give you and idea of what to look out for:
Bow roller assembly design (Rocna Knowledge Base)
Thanks. I didn't see that document.
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Old 20-03-2011, 09:38   #27
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Re: Anchor Sizing - Rocna 20 on 36ft boat

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Originally Posted by cfarrar View Post
25 Kg Rocna on our 42 ft boat, per Rocna's sizing chart, and it works great in all conditions. By extrapolation, I would say the 20 Kg would be good for you.

Colin
Yes, I have come to that conclusion as well.

Thank you Colin.

Andrew
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Old 20-03-2011, 09:46   #28
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Re: Anchor Sizing - Rocna 20 on 36ft boat

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Originally Posted by Kashmir cat View Post
If you Google up Craig's List Nationwide Search, you'll find a brand new 44# S100 Spade anchor for sale for $500.00. These come up occasionally as well as other brands including Rocna and Delta and are worth checking out. Between ebay, Craig's List and close outs at West Marine, I've literally saved thousands of dollars purchasing anchors. The cost of shipping anchors is very reasonable and do not require any special packaging or handling by UPS as they are shipped "as is". When it comes to anchors, avoid paying retail.
I had also considered the Spade but at $840 for a S100 it makes the Rocna look cheap.

My only concern about Craig's list is if I am buying a hot (i.e. stolen) product. If it is coming from a reputable dealer then that is fine but other than that how does one know?

And that brings up a point about the Rocna and other modern anchors. As it is a desirable item, has anyone had problems with it being stolen off the bow?

Thank you,
Andrew
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Old 20-03-2011, 09:58   #29
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Re: Anchor Sizing - Rocna 20 on 36ft boat

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Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer View Post
The rocna has a deep stock and needs depth in the anchor roller or it slides off as it comes aboard and hangs over the side of the boat.

I don't have a working camera at the moment but the link shows a stowed rocna.

Customer Testimonials » Rocna Anchors

We raised the sides of the roller by 4 inches because as it came aboard it would rotate and on two occasions fell off the roller and hit the boat.

It is very hard to lift a 55 by hand while you are hanging over the side as your wife motors around a crowded anchorage. But since raising the sides of the roller it has not been a problem.

This is the reason I did not suggest an oversized rocna.

Thank you for the clarification. The roller that I was thinking of purchasing has a loop that would is used to secure the anchor which might provide the same benefit as the cheeks you installed.

Andrew
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Old 20-03-2011, 10:19   #30
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Re: Anchor Sizing - Rocna 20 on 36ft boat

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Originally Posted by ADMPRTR View Post
I had also considered the Spade but at $840 for a S100 it makes the Rocna look cheap.

My only concern about Craig's list is if I am buying a hot (i.e. stolen) product. If it is coming from a reputable dealer then that is fine but other than that how does one know?

And that brings up a point about the Rocna and other modern anchors. As it is a desirable item, has anyone had problems with it being stolen off the bow?

Thank you,
Andrew
I agree. The Spade is ridiculously over priced. As far as the uncertainty of Craig's List, this is how I deal with it as far as purchasing boat parts. I inquire if the seller is willing to ship the item and receive payment by PayPal or Money Order. Some will and some won't. If the price listed is a reasonable one, then I offer to pay full price and shipping (after I calculate it). This makes my offer more enticing than some ax-muderer coming to his house and endlessly dickering over the price and then killing him and the rest of his family. Seriously, if the seller agrees to the deal, then I contact them by phone and I can get a pretty good idea what the person is like and if I want to do business. Most that I've dealt with are sailors just trying to sell extra equipment or are getting out of cruising.
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