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Old 03-02-2020, 07:08   #31
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Re: Anchor rope - Nylon vs Polyester

You guys are making me crazy! For many years I’ve been told the difference between a sailor and and cowboy comes with what he calls his tools! Is it not still true that when a ‘rope’ comes aboard a boat - any boat - it becomes a ‘line’!
Nit picking I know, but I didn’t sleep well last night .....
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Old 03-02-2020, 13:42   #32
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Re: Anchor rope - Nylon vs Polyester

The material in question is called rope at times at the chandlery. Once it is employed on a boat you will say “grab that line!” And if it goes overboard and is attached to an anchor you say “you just dropped all my rode?”
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Old 03-02-2020, 14:15   #33
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Re: Anchor rope - Nylon vs Polyester

This may help. Miami Cordage has 12 strand polyester brait. https://www.miamicordage.com/product...2-strand-rope/
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Old 03-02-2020, 14:24   #34
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Re: Anchor rope - Nylon vs Polyester

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Originally Posted by MJH View Post
Don't overthink the options. You want stretch in an anchor rope and nylon gives the most...end discussion.
1) If that was the end of the discussion, then why proceed with another paragraph espousing your personal opinion after telling everyone else they couldn't contribute their own.

2) You're welcome to not participate, but not tell others they cannot.

I suspect you didn't intend for the comment to come across as arrogant as it did.
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Old 03-02-2020, 14:38   #35
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Re: Anchor rope - Nylon vs Polyester

This may affect your decision:

It you have a wet lead/acid battery in the anchor locker (as many sailboats do for the windlass) beware! The battery acid will destroy nylon rope. I think polyester does a little better against battery acid.
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Old 04-02-2020, 04:02   #36
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Re: Anchor rope - Nylon vs Polyester

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Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
The material in question is called rope at times at the chandlery. Once it is employed on a boat you will say “grab that line!” And if it goes overboard and is attached to an anchor you say “you just dropped all my rode?”
At what stage does it become a warp?
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Old 04-02-2020, 11:54   #37
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Re: Anchor rope - Nylon vs Polyester

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At what stage does it become a warp?
Ahh, good question.
On a related note, what appears when you sit but disappears when you stand?
Your lap.
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Old 04-02-2020, 14:22   #38
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Re: Anchor rope - Nylon vs Polyester

Amen!
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Old 04-02-2020, 17:24   #39
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Re: Anchor rope - Nylon vs Polyester

Polyester vs. Nylon is not one of those things that has a simple answer. I've used polyester for kedge and shore lines. I've even used it for a bridle (in combination with a Nylon rode). What I would not do is use it as the major part of a shallow water rode. You won't like it and neither will your anchor.



Chafe. Polyester has about 4-5 times less stretch than nylon in a given weave, but an elastic (loose) polyester weave will stretch several times more than, say, Stayset. BUT when you make a looser weave you reduce snag/chafe resistance on rocks. For example, Amsteel is less chafe resistant than Stayset if moved side-to-side on a rock. I've tested this side-by-side on a pendelum rig a number of times, with different brands. It's strange to see. We also see this when lifelines cut. The stretchiest nylon braits are TERRIBLE on rock (I've done the testing); yeah, they stow well, but they cut twice as fast as a tight 3-strand. So a loose polyester weave rode probably is less chafe resistant on rock than you think, probably not much different from Nylon. One of the most chafe resistant materials we use is Nylon tubular webbing (think Chafepro). So the ONLY way to know if a rope is more chafe resistant than another is to test them in the mode you have in mind. A tight Nylon 3-strand will outwear a loose polyester brait on rocks. Strange but true. They won't show you that test.



Stretch. Polyester stretches less than Nylon. Tight weaves, like Stayset, are a jackhammer with only 50 feet out. I was testing in shallow water, which was clearly stated. Now, if you are in deep water and have 200 feet of chain out (this is the example Dashew makes), then the math is different, since you've got catenary, a bigger boat (less affected by waves) and a lot more line. In fact, if you have more than 100 feet of Nylon out, the stretch can be excessive and cause more surging and yawing.



Also remember that rope manufactures understate the performance of competing rope types. They look for the worst one they can find.



So it's not simple. You can use a looser polyester weave and gain stretch, but you lose side-to-side toughness on rock. This is big deal. You can deploy a lot and get more stretch. You can go down in size to get more stretch (some advocate this) to take advantage of the greater fatigue life of polyester. But I promise if you do all of that, the line is not as chafe resistant as nylon (smaller diameter = greater pressure per area against rock).


Someone suggested using a nylon snubber with polyester rode. OK. I use a Dyneema bridle with Nylon.


The other thing you don't see is rode tension comparisons, side-by-side. For example, the OP stated that a certain polyester line stretched 15% at working load vs. 20% for nylon. But neither stated what the working load is, so there can be no comparison. In fact, the ratio of stretch, comparing at equal load, is more like 2-3 to 1. That means the energy transferred to the anchor will be at least double in shallow water. In deep water there will be more damping; there always is.


So not simple.



---


And the "poly" talk is always funny. Obviously, they are all "poly."
-Polyester
-Polyamid (Nylon)
-Polyaramid (Kevlar)

-Polypropylene ("poly")
-Polyethylene (Dyneema)
-Polysacride (cotton)
-Polyamine (wool)


As for the rope vs. line discussion... that's just droll.
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Old 04-02-2020, 17:27   #40
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Re: Anchor rope - Nylon vs Polyester

Polyester is unaffected by acid (sulfuric acid is often stored in fiberglass tanks). Caustic is what you watch out for.


I'm guessing that most people that use nylon don't have a windlass and don't worry about acid. You don't need a battery near the windlass until you are hauling a lot of chain. I'm sure there are exceptions.
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Old 04-02-2020, 17:32   #41
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Re: Anchor rope - Nylon vs Polyester

Quote:
Originally Posted by larrymac View Post
You guys are making me crazy! For many years I’ve been told the difference between a sailor and and cowboy comes with what he calls his tools! Is it not still true that when a ‘rope’ comes aboard a boat - any boat - it becomes a ‘line’!
Nit picking I know, but I didn’t sleep well last night .....

Guilty. You will often hear me say "hand me that rope" or some near equivalent. I don't hold with many tired English traditions. Nomenclature matters ONLY when it adds clarity. For example:



Bolt rope
Foot rope
Rope work
Roping
"Ropeye"
"Learn the ropes"

Hear's a new word for you. Try to work it into a conversation. (Please accept this as good humor):

sci·o·list
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Old 05-02-2020, 11:57   #42
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Re: Anchor rope - Nylon vs Polyester

We're beginning to see polyester docklines as well. I'd love to see more testing in this area. For me, the problem is that polyester only has elastic when supplied as brait, and I dislike brait because of snagging on rocks and pilings. Used on a wooden bullrail, it becomes like barbed wire from splinters.
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Old 05-02-2020, 12:12   #43
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Re: Anchor rope - Nylon vs Polyester

The Parable of the Poly Rode.

A few decades ago I was without an engine in my 40' steely for about 18 months. Not wanting to lose the enjoyment of regular weekend sailing I took to sailing in at out of my pen and the various anchorages available in tocal areas. Because of the very limited battery capacity the boat had I was reluctant to use the anchor winch and consequently relied upon a spare anchor deployed on a poly rode.

One Sunday morning I heard a power boat go by fairly close with a bit of an engine stutter and arising from my bunk found that it had run over my floating poly anchor rode and cut it. Not a problem, I dashed out in my dingy and tied the cut rode back together and before carrying out another weekend voyage changed to a nylon anchor rode which would sink rather than float and consequently not be cut by passing power boats.
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Old 05-02-2020, 12:16   #44
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Re: Anchor rope - Nylon vs Polyester

Thinwater, A solution to the splinter problem for dock lines is to thread a length of tubular tape onto the line and position it over the contact point. cuts down on chafe as well. Some people use plastic hose but I find it tends to be more difficult to keep in place except through an anchor roller. If there is any surge high stretch lines really lower the stress on cleats
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Old 05-02-2020, 16:42   #45
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Re: Anchor rope - Nylon vs Polyester

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The Parable of the Poly Rode.

A few decades ago I was without an engine in my 40' steely for about 18 months. Not wanting to lose the enjoyment of regular weekend sailing I took to sailing in at out of my pen and the various anchorages available in tocal areas. Because of the very limited battery capacity the boat had I was reluctant to use the anchor winch and consequently relied upon a spare anchor deployed on a poly rode.

One Sunday morning I heard a power boat go by fairly close with a bit of an engine stutter and arising from my bunk found that it had run over my floating poly anchor rode and cut it. Not a problem, I dashed out in my dingy and tied the cut rode back together and before carrying out another weekend voyage changed to a nylon anchor rode which would sink rather than float and consequently not be cut by passing power boats.


Different “poly”. Polyester sinks, polypropylene floats.
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