Anchor Poll

[Zednotzee]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I second that about the CQRs. Dragged the damm things on their side around half the planet !

Dave

Yeah, I've heard people say that CQR is pronounced "secure"- they must be dreaming.

[jetrautz]

If you own a Rocna (33 kilo), you set it and forget it. After 5 years of near daily use in the Americas, across the Pacific, and numerous rivers, Rocna is my number one go to anchor for almost all conditions. At the other end of the spectrum WAS our CQR. It seldom set and we never achieved a good nights sleep when it was used. It took us over three years of dragging it to swap meets before someone bought it at a very discounted price. Go to swap meets to determine which anchors are good (they aren't being sold) and which ones are terrible (numerous CQRs... for sale).

[Dragon Lady]

I'm pretty unimpressed with my Delta.
If you want to see which anchors don't work well go to Sydney Harbour on NYE with a 20 knt NE blowing.
It took 4 goes in diffent locations to get my Delta to hold and I wasn't the only one.
I'll be ordering a SARCA when they come back from their Xmas break.

[Dragon Lady]

Originally Posted by jetrautz

If you own a Rocna (33 kilo), you set it and forget it. After 5 years of near daily use in the Americas, across the Pacific, and numerous rivers, Rocna is my number one go to anchor for almost all conditions. At the other end of the spectrum WAS our CQR. It seldom set and we never achieved a good nights sleep when it was used. It took us over three years of dragging it to swap meets before someone bought it at a very discounted price. Go to swap meets to determine which anchors are good (they aren't being sold) and which ones are terrible (numerous CQRs... for sale).

Very good point I think that goes for most things.
When my wife is considering a new gadget she looks on ebay to see how many are being sold off by disatisfied owners.LOL

[JonJo]

Dragon Lady,

Good luck in the Nationals?, I'd guess the last thing you would need is a good anchor or even a bad one.

[Dragon Lady]

Originally Posted by JonJo

Dragon Lady,

Good luck in the Nationals?, I'd guess the last thing you would need is a good anchor or even a bad one.

Thanks Jonjo, I'm having this year off from nationals.

[vari]

Hi All,
This evening a new fabricated bugal type anchor was pulled around the beach at New Brighton (opposite Liverpool).
This being the biggest anchor fabricated to date and is to go on a 45' steel motor boat.
The stock was only tack welded into position in order to keep modifications easy. The stock was moved slightly forward from the original but the angle was greater than what I originally wanted.
I hope the photos taken are downloaded successfully for this article.
The anchor dug in within 2m and stopped my little van. When changing direction of the pull the anchor dug in again within 2m.
On one test pull, travelling approximately 10mph I managed to make the anchor skip/bounce. The pattern left can be seen in the sand.
The anchor did not seem to bury completely with the pull I could achieve. The angle of the stock will be reduced and retested to see if the anchor digs in any deeper.
The base plate is 30mm, solid 30mm dia rolled bar and 20mm stock.
Please comment and any ideas that may improve the anchor will be gratefully received.
Vari

[delatbabel]

I'd be interested in the results, it's exactly the same type of anchor I have. I recently pulled it up after anchoring overnight in shifting winds in mud/sand and it had buried itself quite deeply. It seems to set easily and bury itself well when it sets, but occasionally it doesn't set at all if there's not enough chain down (or on one occasion when I dropped it on a plastic bag). 35kg anchor, 14 tonne boat, 11.8m LOD.

[JonJo]

[QUOTE=vari;1129358]Hi All,
This evening a new fabricated bugal type anchor was pulled around the beach at New Brighton (opposite Liverpool).
This being the biggest anchor fabricated to date and is to go on a 45' steel motor boat.
The stock was only tack welded into position in order to keep modifications easy. The stock was moved slightly forward from the original but the angle was greater than what I originally wanted.
I hope the photos taken are downloaded successfully for this article.
The anchor dug in within 2m and stopped my little van. When changing direction of the pull the anchor dug in again within 2m.
On one test pull, travelling approximately 10mph I managed to make the anchor skip/bounce. The pattern left can be seen in the sand.
The anchor did not seem to bury completely with the pull I could achieve. The angle of the stock will be reduced and retested to see if the anchor digs in any deeper.
The base plate is 30mm, solid 30mm dia rolled bar and 20mm stock.
Please comment and any ideas that may improve the anchor will be gratefully received.
Vari

You have not mentioned what quality of steel you are using. However an approx 16kg Supreme or Excel would have a 12mm shank and be made from a 800 mPA steel. Certainly the Excel is indestructible. Unless you are also using a similar quality of steel I suspect your shank will not be strong enough (I'm guessing you model is bigger, ie heavier as its for larger yacht). Your roll bar is solid, I might have thought a hollow bar would be better, keeps weight in the right place (the fluke). Any 30mm plate is going to be difficult to embed in anything but a soft seabed.

Jonathan

[wolfenzee]

This is one of the more controversial topics for a thread. But I'll bite. I saw one that was formed and kept alive by supporters of the new gen light wieght anchors.
My main anchor is a 35lb bruce, I have a 45lb ForFjord for a storm and a 15lb North Hill for a kedging anchor.
My boat is 30'/15,000lb can anchor with all chain or 30' of chain with rode.

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

I saw one that was formed and kept alive by supporters of the new gen light wieght anchors.

I'm a bit slow sometimes, but what's a new gen light weight anchor? Do you mean, say, a Supreme, Boss, SARCA or Mantus (that has no weighted toe) or are there some alloy ones, like Fortress, alloy Excel and Spade, to which you refer. If they are alloy - which ones?

Jonathan

[congo]

Hi Vari,

Rex here from Anchor Right Australia, little bit of spare time on my hands at the moment whilst on my brake, Vari you have an absolute physics problem with your copy, I cannot go into it for you as I would end up with a migrain, but I can offer somne advice, I encourage all to have a go at designing or trying to improve on technolodgy of descriptions, however you also need to take on board all of rest that goes with it.

Coppying seems so easy regardless of product, anchors they rely very much on physics and design and take many years to perfect, a small change that to you would seem insignificant, it can either improve or destroy the performance of an anchors design, many copies that come from China of origional designs has proven whilst anchors are not rocket science they have to be right ,right down to the smallest details.

So if you are going to have a go, purchase the right size origional bugal for your boat, this will give you correct phyisics, fluke thickness, weight, shank thickness in relation to the holding area is also important.

Well I suppose if you did this you would have what you want so no need making one, of course unless you can borrow one.

The most important aspect of copying a design is to make sure you are using the right steel grades recomended by the origional designer.

Sure there are probably many that have been successfull in copying a design, they obviously think they have it right with no hard evidence to back it up.

Not trying to be smart just trying to save you alot of trouble in consideration of other aspecs as well, boat insurance, some boat insurers hear in Australia will wipe your claim if your anchor is not a genuine design.

Further there are many anchor designs now to choose from, when choosing an anchor dont just go on hear say, ask for copies of there test certificates, types of steel they use,proof loads, field testing showing holding power per kilo in variable sea beds,are their anchors certified, you should not have to ask any of these questions as all this data should be proudly displayed on theire web sites if they are pedeling what they state.

Regards

[vari]

Hi delathabel,
I will post all results and all mods....
I also have a 38' 17T steel boat which uses a bugal type diy anchor which I can not say a bad word on it.....

Rex,
Thanks for your time and effort.

Jonathan,
The base plate is S355 & the rest is S275.
(Bs en 10025) Welding will be with 7018 electrodes.

[noelex 77]

I do admire people that construct their own anchor.

I am not a great fan of beach tests, but I agree that the anchor at the moment is performing very poorly judging from what I see.

The sand looks reasonably soft and the anchor should be setting much deeper before it it drags. The shallow furrow ( in a reasonable substrate) is a characteristic of poor anchor.
At the moment you CQR

The original Bugel has quite a steep fluke angle, so I am not so sure making it shallower will help. Is there a way to reduce the weight in the shank and/or roll bar ?. The original Bugal biggest weakness is its small fluke area ( its still a good anchor, however). The modifications you have made look to have increased the fluke area, but reduced the tip weight, but bear in mind its difficult to judge from small pictures.

A final thing to look at is the "list" this suggests the geometry is not completely square.

[JonJo]

Vari,

I've been to the beach at New Brighton and if its as I recall, its part of the river estuary, then it was a pretty hard packed sand.

The most fascinating part of your work is, why are you doing it? If you are trying to save money it simply does not make sense, by the time you get it right to your satisfaction it is actually not going to save you anything. If however you are to join the long list of famous British anchor (CQR, Delta, Bruce) developers - all power to you!

So keep posting, you'll get all the help that is available.

But I am with Noelex on this, you need to test underwater. Beach testing, underwater, is far superior to testing from a workboat (or whatever) as there are simply too many variables when using a work boat. But under water off the beach - great. You 10mph test is a bit fast - a yacht dragging at speed maybe, but the anchor would be under water. If you can get it to set where you were testing,, it should work in most other places. Once it works - you might want to change the test vehicle - I'm not sure its built to take loads of 2t.

Jonathan