Anchor Poll

[Gene :^)]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Yes, but there is always someone that wants to steal your lunch.
Mantus marketing shows them all dragging except the one and only Mantus. Its all pretty entertaining.
Especially at the end when the Mantus breaks loose and he almost gets castrated.

Mantus Anchor, Best all-around - YouTube

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After watching the scene at the end numerous times and hearing the author's comment at the end of the video about not being good at tying knots, I believe the anchor did not break loose. Instead I think the attachment between the carabiner and the anchor broke loose or came untied. I think the splash is from the bowline knot and carabiner flinging toward him, not the entire anchor. Entire anchor would have been a much larger splash and left a larger trail in the water.


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Gene :^)
http://www.Strathbelle.com/

[River Cruiser]

Originally Posted by stevewrye

What is amazing to me is power boats with high cabin tops and flying bridges, and most have the baby anchor on the bow and little chain.

Most of those in this area are what I would say are lunch hooks. Most only anchor during the day & are in a slip at night. I do anchor out & stay out. I use a FX-37 & 300' of chain & stay put, some think the 37 looks out of place on the pulpit, but I sleep well.

[JonJo]

Interestingly the USCG use a 32kg FX 125 on their 110' x 168t vessel(s) and the same on their new 154' x 353t Fast Response Cutter. I'm not of the belief that professionally crewed vessels have the same demands as shorthanded leisure vessels for anchoring as they can have a 24 hour anchor watch, probably have better access to equipment determining bottom type and ability to outrun most weather systems. But I am sure that the anchor will have been chosen in the belief it will hold such large vessels safely - given the very real embarassment if they got it wrong! - holding capacity and strength must have come into the decision making process.

I admit I would not have the courage to stand by their decision - but one assumes they have a better ability of an analysis than I do and it would be interesting to know how they arrived at their choice.

But brownie points for alloy, brownie points for surface area.

[Cotemar]

JonJo,

I am with you on the Fortress anchors. They are one of the highest holding anchors made (in one direction).

I have a Fortress FX23 as my secoundary or storm anchor.

As a cruiser I would not use it as my primary, because when I did use it over night on my first boat, a storm came through with a wind shift and we dragged at 10knots throught the anchorage. They do not handle wind shifts and resets well.

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

JonJo,

I am with you on the Fortress anchors. They are one of the highest holding anchors made (in one direction).

I have a Fortress FX23 as my secoundary or storm anchor.

As a cruiser I would not use it as my primary, because when I did use it over night on my first boat, a storm came through with a wind shift and we dragged at 10knots throught the anchorage. They do not handle wind shifts and resets well.

We have used our FX 23 as the primary anchor - but only to 'test' it and it worked well, but we did not have wind shifts - just lots of wind. We used it on a 400nm trip up and down our east coast, so lots of different anchorages. We cannot use it as the primary anchor on a regular basis as it does not fit on the bow roller (and I'm not willing to invest when other anchors do fit). Our Excel has superb holding capacity, fits the bow roller, re-sets and is indestructible - so between them we have a good combination of supportive styles.

I have heard that Fortress do not re-set but when I test this, so done 'articially' it re-sets well (but I accept it is difficult to reproduce real life). So cannot understand why it would not re-set as it sets well under almost any circumstance initially. When initially deployed it sets instantly and quickly (stops the boat dead) I can get it to re-set if I pull it out (my articificial test) - so what am I missing. I also find that if set properly, flukes completely disappeared, it requires a considerable degree of patience to get it to move at all. I'm not disagreeing - just wonder what stops it re-setting in real life.

I might add that when I test concave anchors and fill the fluke with mud I cannot get them to re-set 'artificially' but this does not come through as a problem from people who use them.

But as a second (or serious back up) anchor, deployable from a dinghy, immense holding capacity, stores flat in a locker (or on the deck, transom, wherever) cannot fault the Fortress.

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by JonJo

I have heard that Fortress do not re-set but when I test this, so done 'articially' it re-sets well (but I accept it is difficult to reproduce real life). So cannot understand why it would not re-set as it sets well under almost any circumstance initially. When initially deployed it sets instantly and quickly (stops the boat dead) I can get it to re-set if I pull it out (my articificial test) - so what am I missing. I also find that if set properly, flukes completely disappeared, it requires a considerable degree of patience to get it to move at all. I'm not disagreeing - just wonder what stops it re-setting in real life.

But as a second (or serious back up) anchor, deployable from a dinghy, immense holding capacity, stores flat in a locker (or on the deck, transom, wherever) cannot fault the Fortress.

JonJo,

Here is the problem with Fortress or (Danforth) when their is a wind shift or reset.
They bury deep and may pick up a rock which wedges in the flukes, so far all is good and if the wind keeps this direction until you pull the anchor and remove the rock, No Worries.

If the wind changes direction or on a current reset with the rock in the fluke then the anchor flips with the jammed flukes up and just slides across the bottom.

[JonJo]

Hi Mark,

Sorry I knew about this problem (jamming open of the fluke) - I thought it was some (another?) fundamental issue of Danforth/Sand/Fortress that I had missed.

Thanks.

[noelex 77]

The popular perception is that anchors reset by flipping over, or pulling out and then resetting in the new direction.

I have snorkelled on many anchors and watched them reset and the above sinario is quite rare in my experience.
Most anchors remain buried and "shuffle" arround to the new direction. He new generation anchors are very good at doing this.
The anchor will develop a list, and become slightly less well buried, so there is some vulnerability, but they don't flip over, or break out and reset.

The problem with the Fortress and the Danforth is the long stock. If the underlying substrate is very firm as the anchor develops a list the long stock cannot burry deeply and the anchor is forced to surface.

BTW notice in diagram of the Fortress the anchor is shown flipping over with the chain and shank 30 degrees above the seabed. This will never happen with a normal amount of scope.

[Sailor g]

Thanks for the info. Makes so much more sense. I have snorkeled our anchor and it is buried very deep. It doesn't make sense that it would come out and totally flip the over to reset. Why then do some not reset if they are just pulling around. We have never had an issue with our Delta (known to not reset) and we've been in some big winds with changes in direction-and after hundreds of sets.

[JonJo]

We would agree with Noelex. If you pull the chain at greater than about 150 degrees the anchor will sommersault. This seems to happen whether you pull gently or suddenly. Sommersaulting depends then on the load being at 150 - 180 degrees to the originally set direction - which means the yacht had to travel exactly over the anchor. This obviously happens but in real life as the wind seldom goes from due north to due south (or whatever) in 5 minutes the load on the anchor is at an angle less than 150 degrees and the anchor shuffles round (even if in the final analysis it moves through 180 degrees). So if the anchor is a reasonable anchor that was well set in the first place it should shuffle round in most situations. It is difficult to beleive that a Fortress does not shuffle.

Tide is a situation where direction might change through 180 degrees, but again it needs the yacht to commence re-loading at greater than 150 degrees - and in many case this will not happen.

The 150 degrees is probably determined by seabed and anchor type, so maybe 140-160 degrees.

There will be times, severe thunderstrorms, where winds change through 180 degrees in times maybe even shorter than 5 minutes. There would not then be time to shuffle. You then need to worry about shank strength as well as the ability to reset (as thunderstorms tend to be associated with very strong winds).

[vari]

Hi All,
Earlier in the poll I mentioned that I carried a 22kg fisherman type anchor but never used it due to being too unweidling.
While planning our boat the fisherman anchor always seemed to crop up in reference books. Yes the books were old and at the time did not have the net. From memory they were recommended to be used on rocky bottoms.
Does anyone use a fisherman type anchor?

Vari (UK)

[JonJo]

And Seasons Greetings,

We have met people who carry large fishermans, 20kg would seem to be the smallest, and we have heard of people who are said to carry them. They seem commonly stored under the forepeak berths. The people we have met have never, ever, professed to using them (and some of these have been sailing round the world, slowly). We have tried really small ones - and they have been a complete waste of time. In rock I think they would be a liability, get them stuck and you could lose them (and some chain) - this is why people use anchors with tripping slots, Manson Supreme and Anchor Right Super SARCA. Large fishermens are said to find favour in really heavy weed - but most cruisers would avoid such places (they are usually well documented), or use their fishfinder to find sand patches into which to anchor conventionally. Modern anchors of 15kg and greater (or equivalent) Fortress, Supreme, Excel, Spade can cope quite well even with 'medium' weed - its kelp that is the killer. Fishermens have an appalling holding capacity and I would think merit a 24hour human anchor watch and at weights that will work will be a real hassle to get from the forepeak, onto a chain and over the bow (ensure you have good health cover). My personal view would be to deploy them as garden ornaments, surrounded by a ring of retired CQR's - or maybe converted into the legs of a coffee table - at least then they would be useful (and would not engender a false sense of security that you have ground tackle for every occassion).

Jonathan

[vari]

Does anyone want to buy a fisherman anchor..
Going cheap, Faro, Portugal

Merry Christmas

[vari]

Thanks for your thoughts and even with carrying it ten years I agree with your comments.

[Andrew Troup]

Originally Posted by vari

Hi All,
Earlier in the poll I mentioned that I carried a 22kg fisherman type anchor but never used it due to being too unweidling.
While planning our boat the fisherman anchor always seemed to crop up in reference books. Yes the books were old and at the time did not have the net. From memory they were recommended to be used on rocky bottoms.
Does anyone use a fisherman type anchor?

Vari (UK)

Yes , I have a purpose-built fisherman for anchoring in high-latitudes situations where the bottom is thick with kelp.

It is loosely based on the Belfast concept (Ian Nicholson popularised this in a sketch in his Designer's Notebook) where the flukes fold against the shank when not in use.

My adaptation aims to address the deficiencies of the fisherman anchor in the following ways:

The top fluke can be left free swinging, so it lies down against the shank and cannot foul the chain, but if the anchor does 'somersault', the weight of the free-swinging fluke - about 15kg / 30 lbs each in my case - is enough to cause it to engage the bottom like a Danforth-type.

There are two angle settings for the flukes, as with the Fortress. From memory, about 33 deg and 45 deg in my case. A fluke which is set up to be free swinging is limited to the 33 deg option when it self-deploys.

The main problem with a fisherman is that for their size and weight, they do not hold particularly well. However they almost ALWAYS hold, and there's a lot less difference between their holding power in "good" bottoms and "bad" bottoms than other anchors.

This is their unique advantage, and is what made them so potent in the days of sailing ships with only man-power: to take advantage of it, it's "just" a matter of making them big and heavy enough, and you have an anchor which is very suitable as an anchor of last resort, especially in parts of the world with rocky and/or weedy bottoms.

They need to be very large, heavy and sharp to find their way through kelp to engage the bottom.

The anchor I built was to suit a 52' expedition yacht so it's about as big as I am when unfolded (and somewhat heavier). I don't know exactly how heavy: I did know when I got it galvanised but I've forgotten, it's about 80kg, I think.

The trade off between holding power and size/practicality of stowage and handling is the main thing my adaptation tries to resolve. My shank telescopes to half length for stowage, and in doing so it pulls in the hinging stocks, which are channels which swing out from the shank. They are like a compromise between the stocks of a North-hill and the stock of a traditional, sailing ship fisherman, being half way between the crown and the end of the shank.

The palms on the flukes are made of 316 stainless, machined to a bevel so that the point is wickedly sharp.


An anchor this size cannot be launched in the usual way from the bow.
I developed a method which works well, and I subsequently found several people had independently developed, including John Harries of Morgan's Cloud (in their case the anchor of choice for kelp-infested anchorages was a Luke fisherman with removable flukes and stock, about the same weight as mine)

My procedure, which is similar to his, is to carry the anchor, completely assembled but folded, lashed to the base of the mast, standing up. To launch it, a messenger line from the main chain (5/8" in this case) is brought back from the bow roller outside everything and the chain connected up to the anchor.

The spare headsail halyard is then coupled to the shackle and the shank extended to full length, about 2m to the crown. This deploys the stocks.
The flukes are configured as desired using captive pins (of suitably massive dimensions).

Then the anchor is hoisted over the side, taking the weight with the halyard winch, just ahead of the forrard lower shrouds, and then lowered below the keel depth. The spare genoa halyard has a maxi-boat trigger shackle with a lanyard, and a tripping line clipped to this is used to release the anchor, which swings forward to lie under the bow. From then on anchoring is completed in the usual way.

Retrieval uses a tripping buoy, which is clipped to the halyard and the procedure more or less reversed.