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swagman · 10-11-2011, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Let me give an example of "the law"... this happend on the island of Bequia;

A yacht comes in close before dark and anchors. They decide to visit customs and immigration the next morning. That same night, one of the many water taxi's runs into their boat at full speed, the guy being drunk and all, and the taxi guy is killed.

Turns out the yacht is held reliable because he is there illegally. As he didn't check in, he should not have been there in which case the taxi would not have killed himself by splatting onto his hull. I must admit that I don't remember if he had an anchor light or not.

Truly? We've arrived after dark and not found customs open to check in - until 9 am next day. No issues ever explaining we came in the night before.

Plus anyone ever seen a boat boy in Bequia with nav lights?
And drunk in charge and the cruiser he rammed got the blame?
Excuse my doubts - but it all sounds a bit over the top.

Any more info, like when? What bay? Boat name?

JOHN

cchesley · 10-11-2011, 11:45

See. This is the deal. Many technicalities are never 'an issue' UNTIL someone gets hurt or killed. That's when ALL the little details and ins and outs start to make a difference. Most often what's easy and practical is tacitly approved of but when it becomes a big deal, then we find out what the 'jot and tittle' of the law are all about.

Just because it doesn't matter until it matters, doesn't mean that it's really okay.

psneeld · 10-11-2011, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by cchesley

Yes, showing anchor lights is the law.
Some exceptions can be noted, for instance they are not req'd in a "Designated Anchorage" (this means one officially designated and so noted on your chart)
It's disconcerting that a boat owner does not know this, but....
True, many don't show req'd lights
Liability is there but usually won't be an issue unless dealing with lawyers and authorities after an accident, especially involving injury or death
Showing an anchor ball during the day is also the law.
Showing a cone while motorsailing is also the law.
Few folks fully follow the law. (my hand is raised here too)
If you're not comfortable running your boat in certain instances, it may be fair to consider in 'unseamanlike', but don't presume that makes it so for everyone.

Just remember.... dayshapes for vessels under 12 meters are optional

**boatman61** · 10-11-2011, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by psneeld

Just remember.... dayshapes for vessels under 12 meters are optional

psneeld · 10-11-2011, 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Gotta love all the "rule".."law" quoters who either don't know them or leave out some important tidbits...

barnakiel · 10-11-2011, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by cchesley

(...) they are not req'd in a "Designated Anchorage" (this means one officially designated and so noted on your chart) (...)

I did not know this. Can you PLS push me towards a source where I can read up on this?

THX in advance,
barnakiel

**Adelie** · 10-11-2011, 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by psneeld

Just remember.... dayshapes for vessels under 12 meters are optional

Unless I missed something vessels under 12m only get exempted from lights and shapes when aground international or inland, and shapes motoring with sails inland., I don't see any other significant exemptions.

Damn, you had my hopes up.

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navRules/navrules.pdf

Pg 78 & 79 indicates vessels under 12m exempt from inverted cone dayshape when motoring w/ sails up in inland waters. No excemption for international.

Pg 110 & 111 vessels less than 12m exempted from lights and shapes required when aground [ppg 108-9, Rule 30- d) i & ii, intern't and inland] and vessels under 7m get additional exemptions.

Pg 111 Inland vessels under 20m get exemption from lights and shapes when anchored in a designated anchorage. Exemptions are granted by the Secretary of Interior or Commerce and are pretty rare. Be very careful about what you take to be a designated anchorage.

DJBrookster · 10-11-2011, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by psneeld

Gotta love all the "rule".."law" quoters who either don't know them or leave out some important tidbits...

Interesting but this thread is not about day shapes.

psneeld · 10-11-2011, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I did not know this. Can you PLS push me towards a source where I can read up on this?

THX in advance,
barnakiel

In US waters...designated anchorages are listed in the Coast pilot publications. The are online and can be downloaded if you like.

**Adelie** · 10-11-2011, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I did not know this. Can you PLS push me towards a source where I can read up on this?

THX in advance,
barnakiel

See my post #97.

barnakiel · 10-11-2011, 17:17

OK all this in US waters. I see.

b.

psneeld · 10-11-2011, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adelie

Unless I missed something vessels under 12m only get exempted from lights and shapes when aground international or inland, and shapes motoring with sails inland., I don't see any other significant exemptions.

Damn, you had my hopes up.

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navRules/navrules.pdf

Pg 78 & 79 indicates vessels under 12m exempt from inverted cone dayshape when motoring w/ sails up in inland waters. No excemption for international.

Pg 110 & 111 vessels less than 12m exempted from lights and shapes required when aground [ppg 108-9, Rule 30- d) i & ii, intern't and inland] and vessels under 7m get additional exemptions.

Pg 111 Inland vessels under 20m get exemption from lights and shapes when anchored in a designated anchorage. Exemptions are granted by the Secretary of Interior or Commerce and are pretty rare. Be very careful about what you take to be a designated anchorage.

You point out a good debate issue...some of the references I have agree with you (my older COLREGs books)... but some like the online version on the USCG NAVCEN online rules make the exception but don't discriminate between Int/Inland.

I have noted a few discrepacies between publications and interpretations from different countries...I'd like to have a written reference from another country for side by side comparison.

Bash · 10-11-2011, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I did not know this. Can you PLS push me towards a source where I can read up on this?

THX in advance,
barnakiel

It's rule 30 (g).

(g) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length, when at anchor in a special anchorage area designated by the Secretary, shall not be required to exhibit the anchor lights and shapes required by this Rule. [Inld]

**Adelie** · 10-11-2011, 18:52

This site, Learn about navigation lights for sail and power vessels, including the anchor light., indicates there are/were only 96 'Designated Anchorages' in the whole US as of 2009. That's less than 2 per state. Even if you exclude land locked states without a Great Lake or major river, it's something like 5 or 6 per state. The anchor light and shape exception isn't going to do very many people any good.

Bash · 10-11-2011, 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adelie

This site, Learn about navigation lights for sail and power vessels, including the anchor light., indicates there are/were only 96 'Designated Anchorages' in the whole US as of 2009. That's less than 2 per state. Even if you exclude land locked states without a Great Lake or major river, it's something like 5 or 6 per state. The anchor light and shape exception isn't going to do very many people any good.

Not in Kansas, maybe. Here in the San Francisco Bay, they're all over the place.