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Old 11-04-2015, 07:58   #1
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Anchor chain redux

Short of which gun do I pack, or why are (select one) steel boats, composite multihulls, or folding boats best for my needs, from time to time we need to return to old favorites to spark up the forum.

I just bought a Rocna 15 for a friend of mine to use on his Searunner 37 trimaran, and we looked around West Marine for the appropriate chain swivels and shackles. With the new WM model, there are fewer actual boatie things on the shelves, but lots of nice clothing to pass time in.

So here are my questions, updated to the summer of 2015: Is there a current or recent study, using sound engineering practices, for selection of chain sizes? Is there actual, proven information on the issue of the use of stainless steel anchor chain (the objective is the comparison of high-strength G-4 to similar weight/foot stainless)? And lastly, what is the status on swivels, themselves? Any new developments? Has anyone played with making a high-modulus Dyneema chain to chain swivel or union?

On my boat, 13,000 pounds wringing wet with full crew payloads, bikes, RIB and other toys, and plenty of peanut butter, I currently use a Rocna 15, a Kong Swivel mounted through a standard end-link of 1/4" G-4. I am so tired of hearing the great unwashed blathering about electrolysis of stainless and galvanized in contact under water, when the self-same pontificators are using stainless wire for securing their shackles.

I have 260 feet of chain rode as my primary, with most of the surplus stowed amidships for weight distribution. I have several other chain and nylon rodes to accompany my spare and backup anchors. I just want to know if anyone has done anything similar to what BoatUS and WM have done regarding actual testing of stainless chain, swivels, and accessories, that have been submerged in saltwater long enough to actually make comparisions with our tried and true galvanized options. Any takers?

And really lastly, I have had zero luck in finding, even in Southern California, a source for someone who can install an oversize terminal link to my 1/4" high-strength chain, so I can use bigger shackles to secure my high-strength chain to bigger stuff. Anyone have ideas?
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Old 11-04-2015, 08:03   #2
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Re: Anchor chain redux

Yes

Anchor System Sizing Tables (Reply #6) & Why Swivels are a bad idea Ground Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & Swivels
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Old 11-04-2015, 08:35   #3
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Re: Anchor chain redux

Thanks, Stu, that's a great beginning for this updated discussion. Now, anyone, got some info on Synthetic swivels? All stainless systems? For that matter, titanium shackles?
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Old 11-04-2015, 10:15   #4
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Re: Anchor chain redux

On my 11,000 lb boat, have been using Wichard SS shackles between galvanized 1/4" HT chain (no enlarged link) and galvanized Bruce and now Rocna anchors for 17 years and about 800 nights at anchor with zero problems. I think if you compare their working loads to those of the chain and 1/2" rope, you'll find they are plenty strong enough.

I tried a Kong swivel years ago, and within one summer it started to fall apart. Last summer I started using a Suncor Universal, which seems much better made.

Suncor SS Universal Anchor Swivels
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Old 11-04-2015, 10:25   #5
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Re: Anchor chain redux

Swivel or not to swivel?

Almost as good as an anchor discussion.
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Old 20-04-2015, 16:50   #6
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Re: Anchor chain redux

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy M View Post

And really lastly, I have had zero luck in finding, even in Southern California, a source for someone who can install an oversize terminal link to my 1/4" high-strength chain, so I can use bigger shackles to secure my high-strength chain to bigger stuff. Anyone have ideas?
How about a 1/4" shackle first (in chain) and then a 5/16 or bigger shackle into the anchor? Pins to the anchor and chain. Poor mans swivel.

PS: Feel free to bash.
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Old 20-04-2015, 17:53   #7
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Re: Anchor chain redux

Larger end links on chain are I believe usually ordered from the manufacturer when the chain is purchased. They weld the larger link to the same specs as the chain. I've never heard of anyone adding a larger link after manufacture.


S/V B'Shert
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Old 20-04-2015, 18:10   #8
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Re: Anchor chain redux

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Swivel or not to swivel?

Almost as good as an anchor discussion.
In my experience of a few years of Rocna ownership, the swivel was essential. The Rocna is balanced to come up upside-down, and you have to horse it around with a boat hook.

Have not needed a swivel with other anchors which were in my life (CQR, Delta, Bruce, Spades).

The go-to swivel seems to be the Kong. Read Vyv Cox's very extensive destructive test of swivels.

As to stainless shackles or swivels - I thought everyone agreed that this is ok provided it's not a mooring permanently underwater. I've used them for decades with no problems. I presently use the Wichard high strength concealed pin shackles (stronger than the 12mm chain, but replace every year with new).

As to chain spec - see the excellent Rocna Knowledge Base tables.

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Old 20-04-2015, 18:27   #9
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Re: Anchor chain redux

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayana42 View Post
Larger end links on chain are I believe usually ordered from the manufacturer when the chain is purchased. They weld the larger link to the same specs as the chain. I've never heard of anyone adding a larger link after manufacture.


S/V B'Shert
I find that hard to believe.
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Old 21-04-2015, 07:03   #10
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Re: Anchor chain redux

Thank you, Dockhead. This is what he was referring to: Connectors

And this: http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com...elconnect.aspx.

Dockhead, this precisely what I was looking for. Thanks, again.
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Old 21-04-2015, 07:20   #11
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Re: Anchor chain redux

Dig into chain lifting testing application and research data. There is no anchoring nor mooring chain (I believe). It is all commercial or not grade and we get what the industry supplies.

I have seen breaking / damage tests of chain / links / shackles (in a sailing magazine). Given same specs, the links went first, then swivels, then shackles. All tested chain broke beyond its specs, also the plain (G3) grade. Some swivels failed well under the specs, few outperformed the specs. All links snapped well below respective chain specs (meaning: 10 mm link on 10 mm chain: the link snapped way before the chain specs).

The conclusion from that magazine was: use chain and shackles, swivels only if you must and only top specs ones, do not use links.

Well, my 2 eurocents. Have fun researching and getting confused.

Cheers,
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Old 21-04-2015, 09:17   #12
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Re: Anchor chain redux

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Dig into chain lifting testing application and research data. There is no anchoring nor mooring chain (I believe). It is all commercial or not grade and we get what the industry supplies.

I have seen breaking / damage tests of chain / links / shackles (in a sailing magazine). Given same specs, the links went first, then swivels, then shackles. All tested chain broke beyond its specs, also the plain (G3) grade. Some swivels failed well under the specs, few outperformed the specs. All links snapped well below respective chain specs (meaning: 10 mm link on 10 mm chain: the link snapped way before the chain specs).

The conclusion from that magazine was: use chain and shackles, swivels only if you must and only top specs ones, do not use links.

Well, my 2 eurocents. Have fun researching and getting confused.

Cheers,
b.
Indeed.

And the other thing I read in these chain tests is that G30 and G40 ("high test") seems to be the same material -- the G40 generally fulfilled the G40 specs, and the G30 did too!

Which implies that actual G40 chain may be a waste of money.
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Old 21-04-2015, 11:48   #13
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Re: Anchor chain redux

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Indeed.

And the other thing I read in these chain tests is that G30 and G40 ("high test") seems to be the same material -- the G40 generally fulfilled the G40 specs, and the G30 did too!

Which implies that actual G40 chain may be a waste of money.
No.

We may be thinking of different things. Maybe there is a jump from G40 to G43 that counts?

Peerless Industrial Group :: Marine Chain and Accessories :: ACCO Marine Chain :: ACCO Windlass Chains :: Boatman's Pride Windlass G30 Proof Coil ISO Chain

Peerless Industrial Group :: Marine Chain and Accessories :: ACCO Marine Chain :: ACCO Windlass Chains :: Boatman's Pride G43 High Test ISO Chain

2650 vs. 5400 WLL

This implies, for the same desired strength, smaller size can be used, which in turn implies more chain can be carried (or, alternatively, less weight can be carried, at the same length).

In each scenario (think cruising more chain racing less weight) G4 (G43 precisely) wins.

It is not only what material it is but also how it was processed and treated. I think.

b.
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Old 21-04-2015, 13:09   #14
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Re: Anchor chain redux

Well Greg has not posted anything on his website yet... but he has a new swivel I got to see at the boat show this spring... I found it to be very well thought out. Hopefully he will post something here. *cough* *cough*
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Old 21-04-2015, 15:52   #15
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Re: Anchor chain redux

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
No.

We may be thinking of different things. Maybe there is a jump from G40 to G43 that counts?

Peerless Industrial Group :: Marine Chain and Accessories :: ACCO Marine Chain :: ACCO Windlass Chains :: Boatman's Pride Windlass G30 Proof Coil ISO Chain

Peerless Industrial Group :: Marine Chain and Accessories :: ACCO Marine Chain :: ACCO Windlass Chains :: Boatman's Pride G43 High Test ISO Chain

2650 vs. 5400 WLL

This implies, for the same desired strength, smaller size can be used, which in turn implies more chain can be carried (or, alternatively, less weight can be carried, at the same length).

In each scenario (think cruising more chain racing less weight) G4 (G43 precisely) wins.

It is not only what material it is but also how it was processed and treated. I think.

b.
But you're quoting the claims.

Yachting Monthly (I think; or maybe it was PBO) tested the actual chains, and found no difference in actual strength. So while the G30 chain had a much more modest rating, it's actual strength was equal to the G40.
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