Alternative Anchor Hauling Method

[atoll]

Originally Posted by KISS

If so, then an engine-less boat simply cannot haul anchor in these conditions?

that's when you sail out your anchor,let out some rode,sail to windward of the anchor then let the sheets go and drift back on the anchor as you haul the chain or rode,break it out once it is up and down ie directly above the anchor.

[KISS]

To continue re the power of rope winches....

The smallest Harken winch (#16) has a 16:1 mechanical advantage (that's what the #16 stands for).

30 knots of wind pushes a 35' boat with 922lbs of force.
Forces

922/16 = 58lbs

So it would take 58lbs of force to turn the crank on the winch, to pull the boat up to the anchor in 30 knots of opposing wind....but that's according to the factory specs and physics...maybe that doesn't hold up in reality.

Thoughts?

[KISS]

Originally Posted by onestepcsy37

I think you're making too much of all this. I have a 20000lb boat, a 45lb manson anchor, and usually put out 80ft of 3/8" chain. All by hand, in and out. I've got a manual windlass but rarely use it. And I'm an old guy in average shape.

Do you have any trouble when the wind's against you?

Hint; let the "cat" do it.

Catenary? ...could you explain that?

[onestepcsy37]

Here's a thought.

Who wants to give odds that KISS never gets out cruising?

[KISS]

Originally Posted by atoll

that's when you sail out your anchor,let out some rode,sail to windward of the anchor then let the sheets go and drift back on the anchor as you haul the chain or rode,break it out once it is up and down ie directly above the anchor.

Sounds good, thanks.

Not sure why I didn't already think of using the...um, you know...BOAT I'm in........but that's why I'm asking you people. Only issue I suppose is if it's tight quarter's and I can't maneuver very well. So, would still like a way to haul without moving the boat, if at all possible.

[KISS]

Originally Posted by onestepcsy37

Here's a thought.

Who wants to give odds that KISS never gets out cruising?

If you don't mind me asking, how old were you when you started cruising?

[savoir]

Originally Posted by onestepcsy37

Here's a thought.

Who wants to give odds that KISS never gets out cruising?

In the boat proposed ?

100:1 on

In less than 10 years ?

200:1 on

[atoll]

Originally Posted by KISS

Sounds good, thanks.

Not sure why I didn't already think of using the...um, you know...BOAT I'm in........but that's why I'm asking you people. Only issue I suppose is if it's tight quarter's and I can't maneuver very well. So, would still like a way to haul without moving the boat, if at all possible.

use a mooring lol,you have to move the boat what ever way you haul the anchor!
and if you have no engine you are either going to drift through the anchorage or get some sails up quick to have some steering!

[KISS]

Originally Posted by atoll

use a mooring lol,you have to move the boat what ever way you haul the anchor!
and if you have no engine you are either going to drift through the anchorage or get some sails up quick to have some steering!

moorings cost

I'd rather spend that $10-$50 per night on booze.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by KISS

moorings cost

I'd rather spend that $10-$50 per night on booze.

why even bother with anchoring just run the boat up on the beach and tie to a coconut tree next to the beach bar,makes getting home much easier when inebriated

[Jim Cate]

Kiss, I've been trying to stay out of this rather silly argument, but just can't help myself...

Have you considered that neither the mast nor the halyard winch mounts are designed for fore and aft loading?. Have you considered snatching loads from the boat pitching as you try to break out the anchor when it is well buried and there is a sea running? Have you even considered how much force it will take to break out your hypothetical giant anchor?

Mast mounted halyard winches are designed for vertical loads, placing the very stiff mast section in compression. The loads on it are from hoisting and stretching the sails, and are limited to what you can exert via the winch handle. Now you propose to put horizontal loads on it, bending the mast out of column and loading the mount orthogonally to its design. The anchor is buried and well stuck, so you exert your maximum strength on the winch handle... and then a big gust of wind comes, just as the boat heaves up on a wave. BANG! Something breaks.

The scenario that you propose seems designed for failure: single handed, no engine, no experience sailing, no experience cruising, no experience anchoring, a ridiculously oversized anchor, no proper gear for handling the ground tackle... what could possibly go wrong???

The system that you have described could possibly work some of the time, ie in benign conditions. But, and I say this having spent nearly ten thousand nights at anchor, it ain't always benign, anchorages are not always what you expect from the chart or cruising guide, bottoms are all too often foul with debris, and the ability to get the hook up smartly is essential to your safety and the safety of others in the anchorage (and that might be ME some day).

For the record, I have cruised in a 30 foot boat with rope/chain rode and no windlass, a 36 foot boat with all chain and a manual windlass, and a 46 foot boat with all chain and an electric windlass. I have a pretty good grip on what things can be like in the real world. I think that what you propose is a bad idea. If you are going to cruise as you say you will, buy some sort of normal windlass, or you will be putting yourself and innocent others at significant risk.

Is that plain enough?

Jim

[savoir]

This is turning into a typical anchor thread.

[KISS]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Have you considered that neither the mast nor the halyard winch mounts are designed for fore and aft loading?....Mast mounted halyard winches are designed for vertical loads, placing the very stiff mast section in compression. The loads on it are from hoisting and stretching the sails, and are limited to what you can exert via the winch handle. Now you propose to put horizontal loads on it, bending the mast out of column and loading the mount orthogonally to its design. The anchor is buried and well stuck, so you exert your maximum strength on the winch handle... and then a big gust of wind comes, just as the boat heaves up on a wave. BANG! Something breaks.

Was going to use dedicated winch just for this purpose, which can be mounted however I like up on the bow, where a windlass would normally be. Nothing to do with the mast or sails.

Have you considered snatching loads from the boat pitching as you try to break out the anchor when it is well buried and there is a sea running?

The little Harken winch has a WLL of more than 1200lbs.

The Lofrans Royal manual has a WLL of 110lbs.

The Lewmar H@ "heavy duty" electric windlass has a WLL of 360lbs.

Which is going to break/fail first?

Have you even considered how much force it will take to break out your hypothetical giant anchor?

If I'm on top of it, virtually none, just it's weight. No?

If you are going to cruise as you say you will, buy some sort of normal windlass, or you will be putting yourself and innocent others at significant risk.

What's the WLL on your windlass?

How does it compare to the holding power of your anchor?

Can you pull your anchor out with your windlass, at scope, when the anchor's set?

[DanDanDan]

Originally Posted by atoll

why even bother with anchoring just run the boat up on the beach and tie to a coconut tree next to the beach bar,makes getting home much easier when inebriated

The ladies would go crazy for that. I see no need for further discussion. This problem is officially solved.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[MBWhite]

Originally Posted by onestepcsy37

Here's a thought.

Who wants to give odds that KISS never gets out cruising?

Originally Posted by KISS

If you don't mind me asking, how old were you when you started cruising?

It is not how old a person is when they start cruising, it is how they go about doing it. You claim to want to keep things simple and apparently fail to realize that there is always a balance between mechanical simplicity and the corresponding increase of the mental and physical capabilities of the person involved in the situation. It appears that you post impractical scenarios that jump out as idiotic to anyone who has actual experience, and instead of learning from them you decide to be argumentative.

Unless you have no intention of ever actually getting on a boat and are just trolling here because you are bored, the best thing for you to do is buy a small sub-20 foot boat and just get your ass out on the water for a couple of seasons, and then decide if your vision of the ultimate KISS boat is still a 50' steel hull with no motor, a 90 pound anchor, 500 feet of chain in the bilge and no anchor windlass.....

For a boat to look for right now, I'd suggest a West Wight Potter, either 15 or 19. Otherwise you can keep going the route you are on now and for that boat I will leave you with a pearl of wisdom quote by the very gifted and prolific boat designer Phil Bolger:

“Imaginary boats are almost as much fun as real ones, and much cheaper for all concerned.”