Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 21-03-2023, 19:49   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Boat: Beneteau/343
Posts: 314
Adding anchor chain

I have a Beneteau 343 with a 20 kg Bruce anchor. Currently it has 30 of chain and 140 of cord. Last summer I learned that I can no longer get by with that little rhode. The boat has a lewmar windlass.

The current chain is 5/16 WM4.

Im trying to confirm this will work ( 5/16" x 92' Grade 30, Hot Dip Galvanized Proof Coil Chain ) as an extension: https://e-rigging.com/products/lynx-...yABEgKAEPD_BwE
davefromoregon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2023, 22:44   #2
Registered User
 
desodave's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Courtenay BC
Boat: Bavaria Vision 42
Posts: 611
Re: Adding anchor chain

I think your current chain is made for West Marine ... but no idea who the manufacturer would be. Imo the 4 suggests grade 40 which will be a different size than the proof coil. What about the manual for your windlass? Doesn't it indicate which chain types and sizes the gypsy will handle? The website gives link dimensions for the chain you're looking at .... how do they compare to your existing chain? I drove myself nuts trying to compare chain sizes online to my old chain, so ended up dealing with a local supplier where I could take my gypsy in to run a piece of their chain through it. Good luck with your search.
desodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2023, 03:13   #3
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 20,588
Re: Adding anchor chain

Proof coil is a rather long link and not normally compatible with a windlass. Having the chain match the gypsy is essential for the windlass to work properly.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, back in Cygnet where winter is looming and the solar panels are hibernating.
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2023, 03:30   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Annapolis, MD
Boat: Sabre 34-1 (sold) and Saga 43
Posts: 1,387
Re: Adding anchor chain

G4, if that's what you have, has a working load of 3900 lb. Proof coil has a working load of 1900 lb. That is a significant loss of strength. However, it may still be sufficiently strong for your boat, my 43 ft 22,000 lb boat uses 5/16 g4.

If you intend to add chain, you will have to splice to the existing in some fashion. There are many ways to do this, but most compromise strength. Do some research before you plan to do this.

With only 30 ft of chain currently, I am sure that you routinely are into the rope. If you have no problems with the rope to chain splice going through the windlass, there are a lot of advantages to adding rope instead of chain. Rope is cheaper than chain, and weighs considerably less. Note that the weight of chain in the bow is a significant hit on sailing performance. Here on the Chesapeake Bay, where there is no rock or coral to chafe, many boats use 20-50 ft of chain followed by rope.
sailingharry is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2023, 06:10   #5
Moderator
 
tkeithlu's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Carrabelle, Florida
Boat: Fiberglas shattering 44' steel trawler
Posts: 5,904
Re: Adding anchor chain

The splice in the chain is going to be really difficult to get through the windlass. I suggest that you replace it all, following the excellent guidance above.
__________________
Never let anything mechanical know that you are in a hurry.
tkeithlu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2023, 06:47   #6
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 9,209
Re: Adding anchor chain

^^ This. I think the below is what you meant to say.



I have a Beneteau 343 with a 20 kg Bruce anchor. Currently it has 30’ of chain and 140’ of rope. Last summer I learned that I can no longer get by with that little rode. The boat has a Lewmar windlass.

The current chain is 5/16” G4 from West Marine.

I’m trying to confirm this will work ( 5/16" x 92' Grade 30, Hot Dip Galvanized Proof Coil Chain ) as an extension: https://e-rigging.com/products/lynx-...yABEgKAEPD_BwE


If so, you need 5/16 G4 chain. I would not bother trying to save 30' with splice, so just buy about 150' (or more) of G4 and have it spliced to the rope. But since no pro is going to splice old rope, you either need to do this yourself or buy about 150' of new rope.

You didn't say what size rope. The largest the windlass gypsy is rated for, I'm guessing 5/8-inch.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2023, 06:53   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Posts: 5,186
Re: Adding anchor chain

I agree, buy new chain and don't bother splicing. Save the 30 feet to use for other purposes like a spare or stern anchor.
rslifkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2023, 07:02   #8
Registered User

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Muskegon, Mi
Boat: Columbia 36
Posts: 915
Re: Adding anchor chain

"WM4" sounds like G4 packaged for West Marine. They like to put their own part numbers on things so they don't have to match prices. Different part number means different product so no match even though it's exactly the same.
I'd buy a one foot sample of G4 to make sure it fits before buying the long length. My Simpson-Lawrence windlass specified "5/16 G4 or BBB" but G4 skipped on the gypsy. Bought a foot of BBB and saw it fit better than the G4. It now works fine with BBB.
capt jgw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2023, 07:28   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Annapolis, MD
Boat: Sabre 34-1 (sold) and Saga 43
Posts: 1,387
Re: Adding anchor chain

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
I would not bother trying to save 30' with splice, so just buy about 150' (or more) of G4 and have it spliced to the rope. But since no pro is going to splice old rope, you either need to do this yourself or buy about 150' of new rope.
I had to pause before I disagree with thinwater, as his advice is always spot on. But...

Think carefully about your use before you buy 150 feet of chain. It is expensive and heavy, and if you don't need it, it's a waste of money and weight. Unless you are intending distance cruising in unknown waters, or your home waters are deep and/or abrasive (coral or rock), 150 ft is probably too much. My last boat, a Sabre 34 without a windlass sailed on the shallow and muddy Chesapeake, had 15 feet of chain and 200 feet of rope. Very very rarely did I put out even 75 ft of rode. Cruising our new boat in the rocky north, we frequently put out 200 ft and appreciated that much chain. It really depends on your cruising grounds!

Think about your normal maximum rode, add 25 ft, and that is probably more than enough chain. And if the gypsy handles the splice well, I might even think about less chain than your maximum normal rode -- the splice goes through long before you have significant load when a good grip in the windlass becomes more important.
sailingharry is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2023, 07:35   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Posts: 5,186
Re: Adding anchor chain

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
Think about your normal maximum rode, add 25 ft, and that is probably more than enough chain. And if the gypsy handles the splice well, I might even think about less chain than your maximum normal rode -- the splice goes through long before you have significant load when a good grip in the windlass becomes more important.

Interestingly, I've found my windlass handles the splice better with more load. The splice gets pulled deeper into the gypsy and grips better, vs the bulkier splice riding up and sometimes causing the chain not to grab when it tries to transition.
rslifkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2023, 07:41   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Boat: Beneteau/343
Posts: 314
Re: Adding anchor chain

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
G4, if that's what you have, has a working load of 3900 lb. Proof coil has a working load of 1900 lb. That is a significant loss of strength. However, it may still be sufficiently strong for your boat, my 43 ft 22,000 lb boat uses 5/16 g4.

If you intend to add chain, you will have to splice to the existing in some fashion. There are many ways to do this, but most compromise strength. Do some research before you plan to do this.

With only 30 ft of chain currently, I am sure that you routinely are into the rope. If you have no problems with the rope to chain splice going through the windlass, there are a lot of advantages to adding rope instead of chain. Rope is cheaper than chain, and weighs considerably less. Note that the weight of chain in the bow is a significant hit on sailing performance. Here on the Chesapeake Bay, where there is no rock or coral to chafe, many boats use 20-50 ft of chain followed by rope.
I cruise in the San Juan islands up north into desolation sound and points north. All the cool kids have a lot of chain they also have a lot more than 170 total rhode.

Being limited to 45 of water for anchorages is an issue.

I have a great stack of documentation including the windlass. It just doesnt seem to address this point.
davefromoregon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2023, 08:07   #12
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 9,209
Re: Adding anchor chain

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
I had to pause before I disagree with thinwater, as his advice is always spot on. But...

Think carefully about your use before you buy 150 feet of chain. It is expensive and heavy, and if you don't need it, it's a waste of money and weight. Unless you are intending distance cruising in unknown waters, or your home waters are deep and/or abrasive (coral or rock), 150 ft is probably too much. My last boat, a Sabre 34 without a windlass sailed on the shallow and muddy Chesapeake, had 15 feet of chain and 200 feet of rope. Very very rarely did I put out even 75 ft of rode. Cruising our new boat in the rocky north, we frequently put out 200 ft and appreciated that much chain. It really depends on your cruising grounds!

Think about your normal maximum rode, add 25 ft, and that is probably more than enough chain. And if the gypsy handles the splice well, I might even think about less chain than your maximum normal rode -- the splice goes through long before you have significant load when a good grip in the windlass becomes more important.

For the Chesapeake Bay I agree 100%. He does not need that much chain ... but he did not say where he is. There is also some user preference and don't want to argue that.

So yes, the amount of chain varies with the area. And this is why you need to enter a complete user profile--you will get better answers!!


---


Re. The rope-to-chain transition, Google "irony splice." It is a smoother but more difficult splice that goes through the windlass like butter.


__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2023, 08:35   #13
Registered User
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,147
Re: Adding anchor chain

Quote:
Originally Posted by davefromoregon View Post
I have a Beneteau 343 with a 20 kg Bruce anchor. Currently it has 30’ of chain and 140’ of cord. Last summer I learned that I can no longer get by with that little rhode. The boat has a lewmar windlass.

The current chain is 5/16” WM4.

I’m trying to confirm this will work ( 5/16" x 92' Grade 30, Hot Dip Galvanized Proof Coil Chain ) as an extension: https://e-rigging.com/products/lynx-...yABEgKAEPD_BwE
Just save the 30 ft of chain for future use, or for a stern rode etc.

Put 150 feet of new chain that fits your windlass onto your rope rode and make your life easy and now you can use your windlass as it's intended with the long chain and have nearly 300 ft of rode at your disposal. Especially if you are in the PNW. There are times I've needed 200ft + of rode in the PNW. 50 ft of water and only 4:1 scope.

Many people will buy a foot of chain and see how it fits the windlass.... Dont buy proof coil.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2023, 09:00   #14
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 13,122
Images: 58
Re: Adding anchor chain

In a perfect world there would be no outcrops and no old submerged cars or trash in a soft sand bottom, and the water would be so clear you could see your whole rode laying on the bottom. I agree with stowing the 30' and buying 150' of new 5/16 G4 (which is considerably stronger than you'll probably ever need for your boat in Puget Sound but you still won't ever regret getting it.)
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2023, 09:41   #15
Registered User
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,147
Re: Adding anchor chain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
In a perfect world there would be no outcrops and no old submerged cars or trash in a soft sand bottom, and the water would be so clear you could see your whole rode laying on the bottom. I agree with stowing the 30' and buying 150' of new 5/16 G4 (which is considerably stronger than you'll probably ever need for your boat in Puget Sound but you still won't ever regret getting it.)
Yeah, saving a little money sitting at the desk seems right sometimes, and I have done it. But when at the end of the day you find an anchorage that's not quite what you expected and there's a wind chop , you'll be very happy "you did it right"
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anchor chain sticking into windlass chain wheel Bart Carpentier Anchoring & Mooring 18 17-07-2020 03:53
Adding a weight on anchor chain Popeye2 Anchoring & Mooring 98 07-01-2019 08:54
Chain stopper for anchor chain sbrin Construction, Maintenance & Refit 9 13-04-2018 10:33

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.