Adding a weight on anchor chain

[SuW]

Originally Posted by Popeye2

My other anchors are too small...

Then get some bigger ones, my dear! Anchors, I mean!
Seriously, if you value your life and your boat!

If anyone's ever in Iroquois Ontario, there's a 90+lb CQR that was discarded by a person who bought a 50 foot boat from this yard. They immediately ran aground leaving the marina (wouldn't listen to directions).

A year or so later the boat was lost on the rocks off the DR.

I'm not saying those events are directly connected, but it seems suspicious.

The marina will sell it cheaply

[SuW]

Originally Posted by newhaul

that's funny . I carry a total of 7 anchors. 3 different size danforth, a cqr for a 40 ft boat , a Bruce claw , a box anchor , and a grapple type . My next addition will be a northhill.
All are at least one size larger than my boat needs . 3 shots of chain and about 600 ft of rode . Not counting the stern tie reel.

A decent inventory. We definitely agree in getting larger-than-recommended sizes if you're going to depend on it. However, people get quite hot under the collar about it, as you know!

We drove 6 hours to Boston some 30 years ago to get a good deal on chain and a large CQR and Bruce. It was like a farce. At the front desk, two men took it upon themselves to argue, fiercely, that we didn't need such heavy chain or anchors for a 42 foot steel boat...they were customers also. Weird.

The clerk was so bewildered that he started piling the measured chain into the barrel to take it out to our car. Then he had to spend more than half an hour untangling it to get it into our car...

Happy days. Anyway, my point is, it's worth driving a long way to get decent gear (I live 2 hours from Montreal and 5 hours from Toronto).

And there must be such things as marine consignment shops in Europe. Take a road trip?

[jbwheels1]

Let’s do the math. Others have and it all says don't. I agree! But, to reiterate some.
5.5 ton 35’ sailboat. Really light! Will tend to dance more than a heavier one. Our 10 ton 41’ danced more than our current 13 ton 37’. Noticeable! Actually, that can help bury the Kellet in the mud. But not the Bruce. It won't be active until the Kelley fails. This is not the way a Kellt is designed to be used. To increase the burying of the Bruce, you should anchor with the Bruce only long enough to bury it deep in the mud. Then motor in without disturbing the Bruce and add the Kellet. That will now bury itself in the mud.
Now the math!
With the Kellet. you have 15 meters of chain out in 5m+1m height. That is 2.5 to 1 scope. That is not enough. You are on a mooring, not at anchor. Marinas are putting 2.5 metric ton blocks of reinforced concrete for storms like you are talking about. That is because they are Moorings, not anchors.
When your Kellet fails, you will be riding on your anchor, but the catenary from the Kellet will help decrease the angle on the anchor. That is effectively increasing the scope. If your anchor is well buried, the Kellet will help. But realize that if All is deployed at once, the anchor will not be buried, making it more dangerous than with no Kellet. It takes the light motionof the boat over time to bury the anchor and the boat must be tugging on the anchor sporadically. My nephew and friends who fished George’s Bank, just south of the Grand Banks would drop anchor when a storm was coming, ride the anchor as long as possible, then motor up on it, always keeping the chain slackand add the Kellet. That buried the anchor plus they could put out all the scope they had and they did. They believed in Kellets and scope!
So, I do not think your plan is sound. You will be on a mooring that is way too light, lighter than the fabled engine block, both 6 and 8 cylinder. Those do little.
Just remember, you are on a mooring, not at anchor with that Kellet. Too little scope!

[Tomaz473]

If you need it for 3 months and will not be sailing during this time you can go to some marina in Spain. Some are dirt cheap during the winter session. I paid 8 EUR daily rate for 47 feet boat. I did not check monthly rates, but it sure they come with some discount compared to a daily rate. There you can be sure that the boat will be safe.
If the mud is there is similar to that one in Faro it has excellent holding power, but your anchor is still small. I would use a tandem anchor in that case.
I did get more than 50 knots in Faro, but I use 35kg Rocna. The storm was brutal (Faro airport roof was blown away and two large aircraft were damaged), and the problem I had was to retrieve the anchor. It was so deep in the mud that I could not get it out without much trouble. When tidal flow (3 or 4 knots) and wind are 90° to each other it gets really scarry.

[Icarus]

50kn gusts is a lot of wind. You said that you want to spend the winter in this place. If possible look for a more sheltered place... A weight helps... Best thing to do is try it and see if it's helpful.
Some time ago I was anchored in an anchorage with similar conditions.. 120 ft chain and a 30 pound anchor.
..depth 15ft, In the gusts the boat kept dragging. The weight didn't help. I changed to a heavier anchor.. 45 pound CQR which solved the problem.
The 30 pound Fortress flukes kept bending... And basically destroyed itself.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Popeye2

5.5 ton 35ft sailboat. 15kilos Bruce anchor 8mm chain. Mud. 2 meters depth in low tide. Wind from all directions. Gust to 50 knots on occasion. No space to leave out more than 25 meters of chain. To spend the winter I am considering adding a 25 kilo metel weight about 10 meters from the anchor. Am I on the right track?

What’s bow height?
What’s depth of water at night tide.
What’s the fetch?
Can you afford a heavier anchor?

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Popeye2

A new one delivered would be too expensive for me. No chance for a used one near. Whats the best anchor for mud?

Best anchor for its weight in mud is a Fortress and after that a Danforth. But they don’t like to veer so that kind of precludes them being used for a long term mooring when the winds can come from any direction.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

At high tide in Alvor you add 3 meters. Depth 2 meters at low plus another meter for boat plus 3 meters for tide. Total 8 meters.

25 meters of chain divided by 8 equals 3.1 scope. 50 knot gusts? Your crazy.

Try your math again. 3+2+1=6m. Which results in about 4:1 scope.

[rick1964]

Popeye,

I’m in Lagos Marina and I know the skipper of the boat next to me is selling a 60lb CQR anchor (which I believe is about twice the weight of your current Bruce anchor). He’s gone out this afternoon so I can’t ask him how much he wants but don’t believe he’s asking much for it.

I’ve sat out 50 knots at Alvor, at the time I used a 30kg Bruce with a 30kg Angel weight (as you are suggesting). I lowered the weight with a length of rope down the anchor chain until it touched the bottom at low water. When the tide came up the rope was made off aboard so it lifted the weight off the seabed so the weight was suspended near the sea bed but not touching so it couldn’t trip the anchor when the tide changed. I used an enormous shackle to slide the weight up and down the anchor chain for deploying and recovering.

However this is a combersome arrangement and I nearly ripped my finger off while trying to deploy when the weather suddenly kicked up. The anchor was down and I wanted to deploy the weight and the seastate/wind caused me to slip and the 30kg weight tried very hard to rip my finger off. I was always concerned after that, if my set up did start to drag in a blow it could turn very a simple exercise such as raising the anchor into a very difficult situation as you have to lift and manhandle a very heavy weight and remove from a now snatching chain before you can lift the anchor. While dragging not something I wanted to try hence I’ve now upgraded to a 40kg Rocna and don’t bother with the Angel weight anymore.

However going back to my neighbour if you’re interested in his CQR I’ll find out how much he wants.