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Old 29-11-2011, 10:57   #181
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Re: A Second Wind for Rocna

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Originally Posted by Fortress View Post
And therein lies the key issue. The Fortress/Danforth type anchor has by comparison two larger and more massive flukes that will require greater power to bury it deeply into a sea bottom, as opposed to a denser plow type anchor which has a single narrow fluke......and as noted above, that greater power might not be possible with a typical cruising boat engine.

The below comment from the Sailing Foundation test illustrates this fact. The Fortress model referenced is the 24lb FX-37:

Site 3. Inner Port Madison Harbor. Generally Port Madison was good holding. A thick mud bottom typical of many northwest anchorages. Some shell and a little weed. Chuck Hawley of West Marine reported it was considerably more firm than the San Francisco ooze tested in 1990. It could best be described as sticky mud. For example, the Fortress when set in the large angle "mud" position did not set at all. The flukes apparently did not penetrate. When the flukes were set in the shallow position for harder bottom it immediately set to 4410, 3320 and 4230 lbs.

The Fortress set so deep that the rode had to be hauled in to 1:1 and significant power applied to rode by the 83,000-pound tug to break it free. It is doubtful that a sailboat would have windlass power to break it out. Perhaps large primary winches or a rising tide might be adequate. However, it is also doubtful that a sailboat could have set the anchor that deep in less than a full hurricane.
I'm confused. Doesn't all of that argue against using a Fortress as a primary anchor (unless you have a big tug)? And weren't you arguing for primary usage earlier?

Not banging on you - just confused as to what point you were making in the post.

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Old 29-11-2011, 11:31   #182
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Re: A Second Wind for Rocna

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I'm confused. Doesn't all of that argue against using a Fortress as a primary anchor (unless you have a big tug)? And weren't you arguing for primary usage earlier?

Not banging on you - just confused as to what point you were making in the post.

Mark
Bang away Mark, my post(s) might have been confusing. I was acknowledging that if your boat does not have the capability of deeply burying a Fortress / Danforth type anchor due to engine power limitations, then it might not serve you best as a primary anchor in the event of a wind shift.
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Old 29-11-2011, 12:12   #183
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Re: A Second Wind for Rocna

Brian,

It can be very confusing to some of us to have an anchor vendor actually give an honest answer without some sort of propoganda or spin on it. We're just not used to that around here!

Frank
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Old 29-11-2011, 12:44   #184
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Re: A Second Wind for Rocna

The Fortress people, in my experience, will tell you in which situations their products might not excel, while happily demonstrating where they think they do excel. That is not only refreshing, it's realistic.

We've seen the unhappy compromises that go with the claim "one hook to rule them all/And to the bottom bind them!" Such an anchor does not, in my view, exist, and if only because they can snag and rodes can part, I'm personally quite happy to carry as a backup or secondary an anchor that doesn't add 66 lbs. to my boat, lays flat and doesn't rust. Your mileage may vary, and at least it isn't made to the lowest common denominator of recycled hubcaps or whatever Chinese scrap is on sale that week.

Also, a happy byproduct for Fortress is that a lot of people seem to put Fortress at the top of the list as a secondary, stern, storm or kedge anchor. They are probably OK with this in the long run, as we all prefer different primaries, but if we all carry the same secondary...
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Old 29-11-2011, 12:59   #185
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Re: A Second Wind for Rocna

I love my Fortress anchor. I think every cruising boat should have one. Nothing can match a lightweight package that you can take out in the tender and it will hold even a large yacht in strong winds.
I Lent my FX37 to 50 foot cat that could not hold with their 60 Lb Bruce. The Fortress held with almost no chain in same conditions.
However I have watched them when diving when there is a change in wind direction. The long bar digs in and flips the anchor out. It end up on the surface. If you have a gradual pull it will reset, but if there is a strong force the lightweight Fortress (which in many ways is its asset) will skate across the surface.
New generation anchors like Rocna . Manson Supreme and spade will remain buried in the same conditions and gradually rotate to the new direction of pull.


Its also worth considering Fortress unmatched lifetime warranty. They do stand by their products unlike some other anchor manufacturers. If you have got a crusing boat get one, but not as the primary anchor.
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Old 29-11-2011, 14:08   #186
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Re: A Second Wind for Rocna

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Originally Posted by catty View Post
Looks as though Grant King has had the charges against him , thrown out.

Great to hear.

Looks as though there is now a lot more to come out in the wash. Maybe something about bribeing RINA officials.

Regards
Yeap, all charges against GK were dismissed. They, the dodgy party, tried to get them withdrawn so they could keep GK on the back foot and quieter but the Judge seems to have seen that as totally dodgy so dismissed them.

Now the Courts have turned it around and are investigating Perjury, concealing evidence and laying false charges against the Bamburies.

Good job. A good and totally correct outcome for GK and with luck the courts will proceed with the stuff against the dodgy duo. Banbury dad and son.

Now GK can let the world now the whole truth of how it's been scammed.

It's all Karma baby.
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Old 29-11-2011, 14:40   #187
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Re: A Second Wind for Rocna

So the real story is Rocna tried to "bribe" RINA to get certification.
Is that normal business practice with RINA or was something wrong with Rocna?
Grant probably didn't pay the bribe, so Rocna accused him of stealing the money, and lost in court.
Rocna didnt get the certification they thought they had paid for, and were claiming in their advertising.
The story just gets worse and worse.
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Old 29-11-2011, 15:47   #188
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Re: A Second Wind for Rocna

We are now in La Paz Mexico and there are a number of Rocna anchors on boats, everyone swears by them and only 1 Manson, and he says he really wanted a Rocna but none in stock when he went to buy. And he would have been happy to pay the extra for a superior anchor. What can I say but adios Bruce and hola Rocna.
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Old 29-11-2011, 15:52   #189
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Re: A Second Wind for Rocna

I have no trust in RINA for anything. I remember the Erika, a tanker that broke in 2 and sank in a gale in 1999 after having been certified by RINA, even though corrosion had been found in a tank. See for example Skuld - The Erika - Charterers Beware!
"Rina, as Class, was found liable because it agreed to renew the certificate after corrosion was found in number two ballast tanks during an inspection in November 1999, a month before the accident."
Alain
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Old 29-11-2011, 16:21   #190
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Re: A Second Wind for Rocna

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Originally Posted by LWatson View Post
We are now in La Paz Mexico and there are a number of Rocna anchors on boats, everyone swears by them and only 1 Manson, and he says he really wanted a Rocna but none in stock when he went to buy. And he would have been happy to pay the extra for a superior anchor. What can I say but adios Bruce and hola Rocna.

LWatson, you have made 15 posts in total since you joined CF. 13 have been about anchors (one about android and one about Volvo). All of the last 11 have been either attacks on Manson and/or defenses of ROCNA. All in a similar anecdotal 'virus attack marketing' fashion to the above post. In one post you claimed not to know much about steel or metallurgy but then in another you are quite aware of the details of the ROCNA steel issues. I have to say that you walk and talk exactly like a ROCNA sock puppet (including making the two non-anchor posts), and they have a history of using them. You say you don't work for ROCNA but I am curious if you have some other incentive or relationship that makes you come here with an agenda?
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Old 29-11-2011, 16:25   #191
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Re: A Second Wind for Rocna

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
LWatson, you have made 15 posts in total since you joined CF. 13 have been about anchors (one about android and one about Volvo). All of the last 11 have been either attacks on Manson and/or defenses of ROCNA. All in a similar anecdotal 'virus attack marketing' fashion to the above post. In one post you claimed not to know much about steel or metallurgy but then in another you are quite aware of the details of the ROCNA steel issues. I have to say that you walk and talk exactly like a ROCNA sock puppet (including making the two non-anchor posts), and they have a history of using them. You say you don't work for ROCNA but I am curious if you have some other incentive or relationship that makes you come here with an agenda?
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Old 29-11-2011, 16:33   #192
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Re: A Second Wind for Rocna

I always hated anchor threads. But I have to admit the cloak-and-daggery nature of them is pretty fun. What was I thinking focusing on sailing threads?!?!?
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Old 29-11-2011, 16:45   #193
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Re: A Second Wind for Rocna

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I always hated anchor threads. But I have to admit the cloak-and-daggery nature of them is pretty fun. What was I thinking focusing on sailing threads?!?!?

Smack,

Dude,

90% of the time cruising is spent at anchor - I have been told.

It's real important.

(And I wanna know who done it!)
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Old 29-11-2011, 17:18   #194
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Re: A Second Wind for Rocna

Says it all really

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Old 29-11-2011, 18:05   #195
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Re: A Second Wind for Rocna

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
I did a walk around a marina in Greece recently and this is what I found.

It was done at Leros marina. My impression was most of the boats were privately owned rather than charter boats. There were a few long distance cruising boats but most would cruse the summer only.
I counted all the anchors I saw which was about 80% on the hard and a few stored on the water. I did count stern anchors.

Delta 36
CQR 11
Bugel copy 11
Rocna 9
Spade 8
Brittany 8
Plough 7
Kobra 6
Bruce 4
Claw 3
Max 3
Danforth 2
Bulgari 1
Dreadnought 1


Note those with more expensive anchors may have kept them from view
That's interesting, thank you. There seem to be a lot of differences regionally on what anchors you see.

In Alaska, for example, probably 50% of the anchors you will see on boats is the Forfjord, with a lot of the Danforth style. The Dreadnought on your list would be the analog to the Forfjord. Alaska can be challenging, anchor-wise, because of swift and changing tidal currents and sometimes very high winds. Fishermen end up having to go out regardless of the weather so they take anchoring pretty seriously as they do it a lot. Since the Forfjord anchor type is the last on the list, either the owners in Greece know more about anchoring than Alaska fishermen do, or people choose anchors for a lot of different reasons.

Beats me.
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