A Plea For Decent Anchor Lights.

[JPA Cate]

Rwidman, it has to do with the length of your vessel. Jedi's boat is 64 ft. IIRC, and thus, exceeds 20 m. He has to display his anchor ball, or he is de facto at fault, liable for fine and for being considered the cause of a collision if someone runs into him. We, at only 46 ft., are under 20 m. and different regulations apply. Frankly, I do not like having what I write referred to as BS, and would prefer you to question things politely.

Yes, it is true that one sees few anchor balls, especially among small vessels in Australia, and also practices vary among regions. For example, I have yet to see a motoring cone in use, but we have friends who carry and use theirs, and their vessel is 40 ft. If you go back in the thread and read the regulations where they were posted, then you'll see what applies to you and your boat.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Rwidman, it has to do with the length of your vessel. Jedi's boat is 64 ft. IIRC, and thus, exceeds 20 m. He has to display his anchor ball, or he is de facto at fault, liable for fine and for being considered the cause of a collision if someone runs into him. We, at only 46 ft., are under 20 m. and different regulations apply. Frankly, I do not like having what I write referred to as BS, and would prefer you to question things politely.

Yes, it is true that one sees few anchor balls, especially among small vessels in Australia, and also practices vary among regions. For example, I have yet to see a motoring cone in use, but we have friends who carry and use theirs, and their vessel is 40 ft. If you go back in the thread and read the regulations where they were posted, then you'll see what applies to you and your boat.

Well I didn't mean to pee in your Cheerios, but when you post on web forums, you have to expect to read things that might not please you. People from all over the world and all walks of life post on forums and they each have their own styles.

I never said one wouldn't be at fault if he or she violated a law or regulation, I said that the statement that you and others posted about being "uninsured" was incorrect. The insurance company would still have to pay the claim. If you have proof otherwise, I would certainly like to see it.

I can't imagine a guy taking his family out in an 18' bow rider or center console, anchoring for lunch, and then raising an anchor ball. For one thing, he would have no place to hang it from.

[JPA Cate]

Rwidman,

I think I owe you an apology. I did just write something wrong. My arithmetic is very bad, and Jedi's boat is under 20 m., so what I wrote was wrong, and I apologize for that. Here's what I wish I had written, " I think what Jedi was getting at was that without his anchor ball up while at anchor, in the area in which he is located, he would be considered at fault. Exacty what he meant by "voiding his insurance" and specific exclusions his insurance policy has is not something he shared. Possibly there's something to the effect that his vesselhas to be in compliance with local laws."

IMO, this thread is really about seeing and being seen while at anchor, and I guess it's drifting a bit.

Anyhow, sorry if I offended you.

[JPA Cate]

Rwidman,

You're right, on the internet there are various styles, and she who can't stand the heat should stay out of the kitchen, as it were. However, she who fails to speak up when offended (although surely attracting rebuttal) is a silly fool because ignoring it condones the offence, too.

However, you are also correct on two other counts: failure to comply with a law may not void Jedi's insurance; and obviously it would be absurd to expect the 18 ft. runabout to have and display an anchoring ball.

But, if you have the heart for it, do look at the regs which were kindly posted back a ways, it helps firm up one's knowledge, if one gets it right, as I did not.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

............ But, if you have the heart for it, do look at the regs which were kindly posted back a ways, it helps firm up one's knowledge, if one gets it right, as I did not.

I didn't see the regulations for the anchor ball posted, just the anchor light.

As I recall, a minimum size is required for boats of a certain length and larger and the regulations allow for a smaller ball for smaller boats but there's no specific size in the regulations.

Personally, if I wonder if a boat is anchored (in the daytime) I look for a rode and/or a wake. Or, I just aim to pass behind the boat.

As I posted above, enforcement is non-existent in my area. I once saw several LEO boats pass a group of three anchored and rafted boats at night with no anchor light showing. None of them stopped. My light was on.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by rwidman

I didn't see the regulations for the anchor ball posted, just the anchor light.

As I recall, a minimum size is required for boats of a certain length and larger and the regulations allow for a smaller ball for smaller boats but there's no specific size in the regulations.

Personally, if I wonder if a boat is anchored (in the daytime) I look for a rode and/or a wake. Or, I just aim to pass behind the boat.

As I posted above, enforcement is non-existent in my area. I once saw several LEO boats pass a group of three anchored and rafted boats at night with no anchor light showing. None of them stopped. My light was on.

Rwidman, you don't have an anchor daysign so you declare not having one legal; this is standard practice on CF so why not. However, it is mentioned in the rules worldwide, even though you claim not to find them in this thread nor elsewhere, which doesn't change those rules anyway.

It also doesn't matter what you look at for boats at anchor. You really think that an anchor rode is a legal day sign because it is what you look for?

Do you think that liability insurance, because that is what it is about, gives you a free pass no matter what? If you are drunk driving and hit another car, does your insurance cover that? Mine doesn't. I have been witness of an anchored boat, with day sign, being hit by a local fishing boat, who claimed they had right of way. It was only after I testified that they showed the day sign that they got off the hook.

We are under 20 meters and under the same rules as anyone that I know on CF. The only exception I know of is that traditional fishing boats may hoist a fish basket as sign.

This is the same thing as people claiming that an anchor light is not required because of designated anchorages. They fail to understand that those do not exist outside the US. Their reasoning also does not hold in court.

[sailorchic34]

So far the only time I've seen an anchor day mark in the last 10 was on a dredge or two. In my mind the daymark on SV/Jedi looks pretty dinky on that vessel. I would notice that the sun awning was up and there was no wake, before I would see the day mark.

Though it would be cool if Jedi's day mark looked like the death star!!. Now that would be special.

[bobconnie]

World wide laws are world wide laws ! A day mark when anchored is required. No but's about that ! We have one , havent used it in years ! Im bad that way, but I do have Liabilty Ins.! If you folks think a Marine Ins Co. won't drop ya if ya are the root cause of damage to another vessel, your dreaming !! And think of the trouble you might get into when the Folks comeaboard to ck your vessel from stem to stern cking for possible infractions ! Just sayin your dreaming if you think that when they pay out that they wont drop ya !!

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by rwidman

On a related subject, I have never seen a recreational boat showing an anchor ball when anchored in the day time and of course, I don't have one and don't display one.
I'm sure one or two people here will have one and claim to use it, but what are other people's experiences? You see anchor balls or not?

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I'm not sure I've ever seen an anchor ball used by a recreational vessel. They are certainly not seen very often between Canada and the Caribbean.

We hang an anchor ball out religiously here in the Med. It simply clips onto the clew of the staysail and I have whipped a line at its base so I can secure it to the furling line on deck (otherwise whenever the wind picks up it spins and bashes). Takes seconds to put up. Why not comply with such a simple regulation?

This is part of a photo taken yesterday :

[downunder]

+1 Fairly simple to comply with regs.

[Astrid]

Fairly simple to comply with regs.

Indeed, even the German Kriegsmarine followed the regs:

the WW2 battleship Tirpitz flying the anchor ball day shape.



On my boat, I hoist an anchor lamp about 3/4 the way up the main mast and voluntarily, a second lamp lower down aft near the stern; additionally I have lights to illuminate the deck at night and generally keep some lights on in the main cabin

[Dennis.G]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Do you think that liability insurance, because that is what it is about, gives you a free pass no matter what? If you are drunk driving and hit another car, does your insurance cover that? Mine doesn't...

I respectfully disagree on several points:

First, while not displaying a required anchor ball can result in you being held at partial fault in case of a collision, it does not remove responsibility from other vessel to not run into your at-anchor vessel (per rule 17 a stand-on vessel must still take action to avoid a collision with you).

Second, liability insurance (or hull insurance for that matter) normally covers you even if you are doing something wrong. If this wasn't the case, every collision between two vessels would likely be excluded from coverage (again, most everyone in a collision would be in violation of rule 17 at minimum).

Third, auto insurance policies pay out every day for accidents caused by their drunken policy holding drivers (at least in USA). The fact that a law is being broken does not automatically exclude coverage.

[SimonV]

There is no way around it I think I and the rest of us need to get a black ball.

Rule 30

Anchored vessels and vessels aground.
(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:
(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;
(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level that the light prescribed in paragraph (i), an all-round white light.

(b) A vessel of less than 50 metres in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.

(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 metres and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks.

(d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule and in addition, where they can best be seen:
(i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line;
(ii) three balls in a vertical line.

(e) A vessel of less than 7 metres in length, when at anchor, not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or anchorage, or where other vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shape prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.

(f) A vessel of less than 12 metres in length, when aground, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shapes prescribed in sub-paragraphs (d) (i) and (ii) of this Rule.

[frant]

Originally Posted by SimonV

There is no way around it I think I and the rest of us need to get a black ball.

Rule 30

Anchored vessels and vessels aground.
(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:
(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;
(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level that the light prescribed in paragraph (i), an all-round white light.

(b) A vessel of less than 50 metres in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.

(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 metres and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks.

(d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule and in addition, where they can best be seen:
(i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line;
(ii) three balls in a vertical line.

(e) A vessel of less than 7 metres in length, when at anchor, not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or anchorage, or where other vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shape prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.

(f) A vessel of less than 12 metres in length, when aground, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shapes prescribed in sub-paragraphs (d) (i) and (ii) of this Rule.

I really don't have much to add and shouldn't be pedantic but can't help myself. Regulation above suggests an all round white light OR black anchor ball. No mention of time of day or light conditions etc. I am not getting an anchor ball, I am just going to leave my anchor light (masthead) on during the day. It can best be seen from the masthead. If you can't see the light bit can see the masthead during the day then I am doing the right thing!!!

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by frant

I really don't have much to add and shouldn't be pedantic but can't help myself. Regulation above suggests an all round white light OR black anchor ball. No mention of time of day or light conditions etc. I am not getting an anchor ball, I am just going to leave my anchor light (masthead) an during the day. It can best be seen from the masthead. If you can't see the light bit can see the masthead during the day then I am doing the right thing!!!

Why would you want the power draw?
Displaying a black ball is just a simple safety regulation and universally understood. It leaves no doubt you are anchored (presence of rode may not always make that clear). It is inexpensive and easy to comply with. Why fight it?