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Old 07-05-2013, 13:41   #181
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Originally Posted by Caracal View Post

Colregs is the international standard to avoid collision at sea regardless of where you are (unless inland waterways, obviously).

Colregs does not deal with lifevests and lights for them and such things.

Equipment (lifevests etc) falls under SOLAS for the international approval, and USCG for the US (it's usually a matter of applying and paying for the second approval).

You are once again confusing matters: Colregs does NOT deal with MOB situations, liferafts, lights on horse shoes, life slings, or anything of the sort.

IMO stands for 'International Maritime Organization', and as such, they have been instrumental in drafting the SOLAS convention, and I believe they have had a hand in drafting the COLREGS (as a convention to be signed etc.) But COLREGS and SOLAS are not the same. One deals with avoiding collisions at sea, the other deals with safety at sea and equipment standards (as does the USCG). I hope you can make out which is SOLAS and which is COLREG.
Good, you fully agree with me, yet somehow make it sound like you're not

Here is the US version of the COLREGS which is International COLREGS 72 with some extra rules, incl. for strobes added: http://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/1...m_16672_2d.pdf

My point is that strbes are not illegal or to be avoided. They are genuine distress signals regulated by SOLAS (and IMO now hosts SOLAS) and recognized by SAR services worldwide.
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Old 07-05-2013, 13:51   #182
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Re: A Plea For Decent Anchor Lights.

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Good, you fully agree with me, yet somehow make it sound like you're not
I disagree with you, because you seem confused about the various regulations. Case in point:


Quote:
Here is the US version of the COLREGS which is International COLREGS 72 with some extra rules, incl. for strobes added: http://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/1...m_16672_2d.pdf
That links copy/pastes the International Colregs, but it deals with INLAND waterways, and as such it is amended. There are different rules for inland waterways than there are for open waters.


Quote:
My point is that strbes are not illegal or to be avoided. They are genuine distress signals regulated by SOLAS (and IMO now hosts SOLAS) and recognized by SAR services worldwide.
You still don't understand it! IMO doesn't "host" SOLAS. They drafted the convention called International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea - or at least the later versions (main newest one in 1974).

SOLAS does indeed have minimum standards. That's the whole point of it. However, that a strobe on your person or in your hand is recommended by SOLAS, does not mean a strobe on your mast top is then okay according to Colregs.

I said it before, but you're completely confused about this, and then you go googling, find a snippet which you only half read, and then post your misconception as fact.
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Old 07-05-2013, 14:01   #183
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Re: A Plea For Decent Anchor Lights.

OP: I can't see anchored boats well at night, please use better lights

TypeA people: Anchor day shapes!
The dude: Hey man, just do whatever.
Rules Lawyer: -points to COLREGs- Cites rules.
Other Rules Lawyer: No no SOLAS is in play!
HandWringer: but but but but insurance!

Thanks CF. Another stunningly sharp, on point, and helpful thread that has cleared up confusion and addressed OP's plea.
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Old 07-05-2013, 14:07   #184
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Re: A Plea For Decent Anchor Lights.

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Originally Posted by Target9000 View Post
OP: I can't see anchored boats well at night, please use better lights

TypeA people: Anchor day shapes!
The dude: Hey man, just do whatever.
Rules Lawyer: -points to COLREGs- Cites rules.
Other Rules Lawyer: No no SOLAS is in play!
HandWringer: but but but but insurance!

Thanks CF. Another stunningly sharp, on point, and helpful thread that has cleared up confusion and addressed OP's plea.
Well, had people read his plea and stopped there, there wouldn't have been enough posts for you to read and whine about. It's a win-win!
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Old 07-05-2013, 14:17   #185
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Re: A Plea For Decent Anchor Lights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Target9000 View Post
OP: I can't see anchored boats well at night, please use better lights

TypeA people: Anchor day shapes!
The dude: Hey man, just do whatever.
Rules Lawyer: -points to COLREGs- Cites rules.
Other Rules Lawyer: No no SOLAS is in play!
HandWringer: but but but but insurance!

Thanks CF. Another stunningly sharp, on point, and helpful thread that has cleared up confusion and addressed OP's plea.
especially to the "rules" people (we all know that only a rare few understand and follow ANY of the rules)
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Old 07-05-2013, 14:22   #186
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Re: A Plea For Decent Anchor Lights.

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Originally Posted by Caracal View Post
Well, had people read his plea and stopped there, there wouldn't have been enough posts for you to read and whine about. It's a win-win!
Yes please. Do go on.
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Old 07-05-2013, 15:50   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caracal View Post

I disagree with you, because you seem confused about the various regulations. Case in point:

That links copy/pastes the International Colregs, but it deals with INLAND waterways, and as such it is amended. There are different rules for inland waterways than there are for open waters.

You still don't understand it! IMO doesn't "host" SOLAS. They drafted the convention called International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea - or at least the later versions (main newest one in 1974).

SOLAS does indeed have minimum standards. That's the whole point of it. However, that a strobe on your person or in your hand is recommended by SOLAS, does not mean a strobe on your mast top is then okay according to Colregs.

I said it before, but you're completely confused about this, and then you go googling, find a snippet which you only half read, and then post your misconception as fact.
Inland waterways.. Where? Yes, in the US, like I wrote: these are US specific rules. You disagree with what I write and then come with a different angle to the same thing.

IMO hosts SOLAS. SOLAS is a convention and predates IMO by 45 years or so. I'm sure you will come up with a different word for it, like "merged with IMO after they were formed 45 years later".

So, do you state that distress strobes are illegal? If you do, then you disagree with me, if you don't then you agree with me.

You might need to know that I post here to help others, not to start silly discussions with you about words or to be ridiculed for it. When I'm wrong, which happens now and then, you or others correct me, which is how it's supposed to go. When in a lengthy thread like this, I find statements like that strobes are illegal for distress unchallenged and act, then it does not help to just bash me for the fun of it. It sucks actually. So, give proof that distress strobes are illegal or stop bashing me about different words or other small stuff. Assume good faith. Be nice.
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Old 07-05-2013, 16:16   #188
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Re: A Plea For Decent Anchor Lights.

All this discussion of COLREGS and SOLAS is fine and pretty entertaining. Keep in mind though, at least in most parts of the USA, there is no test and no license required to own or operate a boat. Even in the few states where a test and certificate is required, the test is pretty simple and everyone passes.

My point is, perhaps 90% of USA boaters have never heard of COLREGS or SOLAS, much less know the regulations so it would not be wise to assume that a boater you might come into contact with would operate within these regulations.

Personally, I would like to see testing and licensing because I would feel safer knowing other boaters understood the rules of the road. I doubt it will happen any time soon though.
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Old 07-05-2013, 17:27   #189
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Re: A Plea For Decent Anchor Lights.

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
All this discussion of COLREGS and SOLAS is fine and pretty entertaining. Keep in mind though, at least in most parts of the USA, there is no test and no license required to own or operate a boat. Even in the few states where a test and certificate is required, the test is pretty simple and everyone passes.

My point is, perhaps 90% of USA boaters have never heard of COLREGS or SOLAS, much less know the regulations so it would not be wise to assume that a boater you might come into contact with would operate within these regulations.

Personally, I would like to see testing and licensing because I would feel safer knowing other boaters understood the rules of the road. I doubt it will happen any time soon though.
We probably need to do it like a drivers license setup except with retesting every five years. Inspections for your boat every year with impoundment if you don't comply and don't have ALL equipment you might need onboard. (including all day shapes). They should require anchors or appropriate ground tackle for the size of the boat (2 sizes above manufacturer's recommendation). A morse code test with lights to signal to other boats. Require and inspect log books every check in and check out of port. Lifejackets and clip in required at all times for everyone no matter what. Ban gasoline completely off of yachts along with propane. No smoking on board. No alcohol or mind altering substances. Required celestial navigation courses and paper charts. Probably a good idea to never let a minor onboard without at least 4 watchstanding crew all holding 500T masters. You also need a maritime attorney onboard as legal consul to advise you of an rule that might be somewhat ambiguous in a novel situation. And a lot of bubble wrap.

Then maybe we can all just "feel safe".

Oh btw, nice stat. "perhaps 90% of USA boaters have never heard of COLREGS or SOLAS, much less know the regulations " Can you cite a source for that? Up and down my pier I'd have trouble finding someone who hadn't heard of them. But you know, I guess I'm just that lucky guy surrounded by knowledgeable people.
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Old 07-05-2013, 17:34   #190
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Re: A Plea For Decent Anchor Lights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
They are genuine distress signals regulated by SOLAS (and IMO now hosts SOLAS) and recognized by SAR services worldwide.


I am still confused. The colregs have a specific rule (#37) entitled "distress signals'. It lists 16 distress signals, all the typical ones, and it does not list a strobe as a recognized or approved distress signals.

Are you saying that Solas has some different list of distress signals, that is different/inconsistent with the Colregs list? If so, it would help me if you would please post a link to a SOLAS document that recognizes a strobe as a distress signal.

What I see when I google SOLAS distress signals is that SOLAS provides additional specifications for the colregs signals (eg brightness, shelf life, waterproofness, how many must be carried, etc), but I have not been able to find that they approve any additional types of distress signals (eg strobes) not approved by the colregs.

Edit: here is a UK document that does show "international distress signals" from the colregs and SOLAS "life saving signals". The SOLAS signals here include some flag signals and aircraft wing rocking signals, that are for two way communication (things like 'it is safe to land here', and "I have seen you") but no additional distress signals and it does NOT include strobes (sorry this graphic is difficult to read). Edit2 : here is a full pdf that is readable http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_185583.pdf

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I believe the Colreg is THE list of distress signals and strobes are not on it.
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Old 07-05-2013, 17:47   #191
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Re: A Plea For Decent Anchor Lights.

Finally some logic. Thanks, Tate, hi to Dani.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Target9000 View Post
We probably need to do it like a drivers license setup except with retesting every five years. Inspections for your boat every year with impoundment if you don't comply and don't have ALL equipment you might need onboard. (including all day shapes). They should require anchors or appropriate ground tackle for the size of the boat (2 sizes above manufacturer's recommendation). A morse code test with lights to signal to other boats. Require and inspect log books every check in and check out of port. Lifejackets and clip in required at all times for everyone no matter what. Ban gasoline completely off of yachts along with propane. No smoking on board. No alcohol or mind altering substances. Required celestial navigation courses and paper charts. Probably a good idea to never let a minor onboard without at least 4 watchstanding crew all holding 500T masters. You also need a maritime attorney onboard as legal consul to advise you of an rule that might be somewhat ambiguous in a novel situation. And a lot of bubble wrap.

Then maybe we can all just "feel safe".

Oh btw, nice stat. "perhaps 90% of USA boaters have never heard of COLREGS or SOLAS, much less know the regulations " Can you cite a source for that? Up and down my pier I'd have trouble finding someone who hadn't heard of them. But you know, I guess I'm just that lucky guy surrounded by knowledgeable people.
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Old 07-05-2013, 18:22   #192
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Re: A Plea For Decent Anchor Lights.

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Finally some logic. Thanks, Tate, hi to Dani.
I'll give her a big smooch on the cheek for you Stu.
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Old 07-05-2013, 18:45   #193
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Re: A Plea For Decent Anchor Lights.

While I like to show the anchor ball, to reinforce rules and tradition, the metal ones are not exactly “yacht friendly” and the inflatable ones have crazy prices

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Old 07-05-2013, 19:01   #194
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Re: A Plea For Decent Anchor Lights.

I think the use of Strobe Lights to attract attention is commonplace even if not approved.
On Super yachts we install them to confirm with pilot that crew is ready for helicopter landings. (A quick flash)

Rule 36 ~ Signals to Attract Attention
If necessary to attract the attention of another vessel, any vessel may make light or sound signals that cannot be mistaken for any signal authorized elsewhere in these Rules, or may direct the beam of her searchlight in the direction of the danger, in such a way as not to embarrass any vessel Any light to attract the attention of another vessel shall be such that it cannot be mistaken for any aid to navigation. For the purpose of this Rule the use of high intensity intermittent or revolving lights, such as strobe lights, shall be avoided.


SSCA Forum • View topic - Using Strobe Lights for Anchor Lights
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Old 07-05-2013, 19:09   #195
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Re: A Plea For Decent Anchor Lights.

COLREGs and SOLAS aside, I had always assumed that the use of strobes on PFDs was that you can generate high-visibility pulses of light for a hell of a lot longer than continuous light with a relatively limited battery capacity.
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