1/4"HT vs. 5/16" Proof Chain

[witzgall]

Hi all;

I am been thinking abouut our ground tackle and systems. Currently there is no windlass onboard, just a big honkin' cleat. We have 100' of chain, which I think is 5/16 proof coil.

When considering a windlass, weight up front, and chain length, I was considering the wisdom of moving DOWN a size in chain, to 1/4, up in length, to 200', and making the chain HT spec. My reasoning would be the extra length would store in our smaller chain locker without much issue, a potential problem if we install a windlass.

I would then have another setup with perhaps 200' of brait and 25-30' of chain.

The boat is 32' and weighs ~10k lbs on paper unloaded.

Comments?

Chris

[Paul L]

And what areas do you plan on anchoring in?

Paul L

[starfish62]

Generally speaking, the heavier the chain the better. 3/8 is a point for most in that the windlasses go up a level in magnitude. With a 10,000# boat, I'd think 1/4 would be ample for most purposes. If your boat is in NC, and you're planning on cruising there, then you'll never need the 200'. If you're thinking of cruising to the Carib & other toothy areas, and be in exposed roadsteads during squalls, for instance, then stay with the 5/16. That extra weight is nice when it's on the bottom!

These guys have WLL and specs for a lot of different chain.
MiamiCordage.com Chain & Fittings - Wire rope. Mooring dock anchor lines. Double yacht braid. Galvanized chain, nylon slings, towing bridles, stainless steel railings, aircraft cable. Custom color rope.

[s/v 'Faith']

One consideration with 1/4" ht is the lack of suitable shackles. The only shackle that seems to fit (pin size) through the standard 1/4"ht link are the tiny 1/4" ones. Most are rated a "1/4 ton" wll....

Some will have an over sized link welded onto the end of the chain... this seems like a lot of extra work, especially if you go and get that one last link galvanized.

I have a 50' length of 1/4" ht that I have moved from the boat to the house. I do not find it to have much use on the boat since I can not attach it to anything in any meaningful way.

I would recommend sticking with a 5/16" proof chain. The weight is not too tough to handle, but the links will accept a reasonable sized shackle.

[Ancora Latina]

Originally Posted by starfish62

Generally speaking, the heavier the chain the better. .

As usual J I have a different theory!..

They are two main purposes for a chain:
- The most important one is to attach the anchor to the boat (or the boat to the anchor) but this can also be done by a rope!
- The second one is to avoid chaffing of the rode by aggressive seabed, (coral – Rock – shells etc…)

Generally speaking THE STRONGER the chain the better,

If you don’t have a windlass, 30’ of chain will be enough, (including if you are in a coral area by using a buoy at the chain/rope junction) and then, Nylon ROPE.

Doing that, you will not only have much less weight at the bow, less weight to pull back onboard and a more efficient mooring line (more ELASTICITY)

You may also consider that « New Gen » anchors are more efficient and for the same holding, you can save nearly half the weight of a traditional anchor...

João

[Sandero]

When you weigh anchor you are pulling your boat to the anchor as well as hauling in the rode. MOST of the force is the weight of the boat and its windage.

In windy conditions you will want to have a windlass even with nylon rode and a light next gen anchor because the actual lifting of the anchor (as opposed to pulling the boat to the anchor and taking up the rode) and the chain occurs when the anchor has broken out and the bow is above the anchor.

[witzgall]

Now, East coast, Later, Carrib and ???

Originally Posted by Paul L

And what areas do you plan on anchoring in?

Paul L

[janders]

Originally Posted by Ancora Latina

As usual J I have a different theory!..

They are two main purposes for a chain:
- The most important one is to attach the anchor to the boat (or the boat to the anchor) but this can also be done by a rope!
- The second one is to avoid chaffing of the rode by aggressive seabed, (coral – Rock – shells etc…)

Generally speaking THE STRONGER the chain the better,

If you don’t have a windlass, 30’ of chain will be enough, (including if you are in a coral area by using a buoy at the chain/rope junction) and then, Nylon ROPE.

Doing that, you will not only have much less weight at the bow, less weight to pull back onboard and a more efficient mooring line (more ELASTICITY)

You may also consider that « New Gen » anchors are more efficient and for the same holding, you can save nearly half the weight of a traditional anchor...

João

What he said.

And before you rule out shackles for 1/4"HT chain, look at Crosby alloy shackles. You won't find them in a standard chandlery because for some reason, no one thinks shackles need to be as strong as chain. I found some at a local commercial marine supplier. I have 5/16HT chain with a WLL of 3900lbs and found the 3/8" alloy shackle from Crosby fit inside the links and had a WLL of 4,000lbs.

[s/v 'Faith']

Originally Posted by janders

What he said.

And before you rule out shackles for 1/4"HT chain, look at Crosby alloy shackles. You won't find them in a standard chandlery because for some reason, no one thinks shackles need to be as strong as chain. I found some at a local commercial marine supplier. I have 5/16HT chain with a WLL of 3900lbs and found the 3/8" alloy shackle from Crosby fit inside the links and had a WLL of 4,000lbs.

FWIW, Even the Crosby shakles that fit 1/4" HT are too light. They are better then the standard fare but the thicker links of the HT chain, in 1/4" make the task nearly impossible at a reasonable WLL.

For the numbers, take a look at the second page of this thread on the Pearson Ariel owners association web page.

[witzgall]

Here is a link to some Crosby shackles. The 1/4 size are rated at 1000lbs wll. I wonder if you could get the larger sizes in the 5/16 chain links?

Chris

[Celestialsailor]

Hope I'm not stating the obvious...Why not just buy a second hand windlass??? I just did.

[witzgall]

Concerning the inside dimensions of chain - Peerless (owner of Acco) lists the same minimum dimension of 5/15 and 14 HT chain here: http://www.peerlesschain.com/downloa...08.pdf#page=16

So I am confused as to why this would be an issue with 1/4 chain, unless there are different specs out there, or I am reading this wrong?

Chris

[emeraldsea]

Originally Posted by Ancora Latina

As usual J I have a different theory!..

They are two main purposes for a chain:
- The most important one is to attach the anchor to the boat (or the boat to the anchor) but this can also be done by a rope!
- The second one is to avoid chaffing of the rode by aggressive seabed, (coral – Rock – shells etc…)

Generally speaking THE STRONGER the chain the better,

If you don’t have a windlass, 30’ of chain will be enough, (including if you are in a coral area by using a buoy at the chain/rope junction) and then, Nylon ROPE.

Doing that, you will not only have much less weight at the bow, less weight to pull back onboard and a more efficient mooring line (more ELASTICITY)

You may also consider that « New Gen » anchors are more efficient and for the same holding, you can save nearly half the weight of a traditional anchor...

João

Heavier is better, because it lays on the bottom better, this is what gives you holding power and is an important function of your chain. The bigger the chain the better the scope, the better your anchor will hold.

[Ancora Latina]

Originally Posted by emeraldsea

Heavier is better, because it lays on the bottom better, this is what gives you holding power and is an important function of your chain. The bigger the chain the better the scope, the better your anchor will hold.

WRONG!... This is a very common perceived wisdom!

- It is fully right that the pulling ANGLE of the mooring rode gives you holding power, more the line is horizontal, more the holding…

But this angle is given by SCOPE! not by the weight of the chain, if you are using a well adapted chain (not a very oversized one) and a « normal » scope, your chain is no longer lying on the sea bed for winds stronger than 25/30 knots...

This common mistake is due to the fact that very few (fortunately) sailors are experiencing winds stronger than 30 knots... With light winds, DUE TO ITS WEIGHT, the chain is lying fully horizontal on the sea bed, giving a perfect holding...

But who cares about the holding with winds lower than 30 knots??
With winds bigger than 30 knots, the angle of an all chain rode isn’t very different than the one of an all rope rode... or the difference is so small that the difference of holding is negligeable.

João

[emeraldsea]

Where I live 25/30 knots of wind is a good sailing day. If your not prepared to anchor in 50+ knots of wind, then you shouldn't be out there, although our Coast Guard auxillary has to get practice some how. With enough scope, a heavy chain WILL stay on the bottom during a good blow. I will agree to dissagree, but I'm going with personal experience as well as what generations of fishermen would advise, and in my part of the world the advice is "bigger is better".