Whats the best windvane?

[Fi2010]

Originally Posted by oldcal46skipper

No one has mentioned the "Sayes Rig". I think Mr Sayes has passed, but my wind vane is still working perfectly after 37 years. We have had several passages where the Sayes did 99% of the steering, but then again we have a Cal 46.
Details & pix on request.

The Sayes windvane is built by Scanmar: https://www.scanmarinternational.com/sayes-rig-hp

[Fi2010]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

No question that the Monitor does a good job. Other than leaving the pendulum in the water, and thus slightly reducing steering response when not in use, it should steer as well as any vane. However please take note that older (and not that much older) Monitors were not made with the greatest corrosion resistance - whether materials or techniques I am not sure, but I have known used ones to fall apart so caveat emptor. Basically the tubing is polished on the outside, and fittings are welded to it and apparently passivated, but internally in way of the welds corrosion can develop unseen. I knew a couple that bought a used one which appeared to be in good condition; a few hundred miles later it broke and a welder told them that there wasn't enough metal thickness left to weld to. It is my understanding that new units are built better, and in any event even old ones last decades - just check inside carefully before buying used, and rinse out with fresh water often. The point I would make is that the large structure is unnecessary as newer designs demonstrate.

Greg

Hi Greg,

Our boat show representative has worked next to Hydrovane and Scanmar (Monitor windvane). Our representative has overheard countless customers claim how well these windvanes perform even after 20 to 30 years! If anything, a customer might ask about replacement parts. Parts they can easily purchase.

Parts from Windpilot, Aries and a couple of other brands could be difficult to acquire. Might be a good idea to ask about the availability of parts. Some companies might include spare replacement parts with the original purchase. So ask.

[Fi2010]

Originally Posted by Ramona

All the Monitors I have seen have lift up oar blades. My Aries has a lift up blade as well but I made the mod.
During the recent Golden Globe race there were problems with Monitors having failed welds. The welds are all Tig welded and pretty. I think they spent more time making the units look attractive where as they should have added more metal.

The Monitor has a break away bar in case a sailor runs over something or a vessel is severely knocked down. All you have to do is remove the bent bar and replace it with a new one. An extra part provided with the initial purchase. Never heard of welds failing. However, there was another brand windvane that broke apart during the Golden Globe.

Other windvanes may not have break away bars meaning once the windvane is bent you'll have to mail the entire unit back to the manufacturer for repair.

[Pegu Club]

We use a monitor wind-vane, as well we have a pelagic tiller pilot that attaches nicely to the monitor, we also have the emergency rudder attachment, but have yet to use it. Granted our boat is not the displacement of the OP vessel, but I will say that in snotty conditions the monitor has been flawless thus far. We use it on day sails, and coastal, passages.
Should you have questions call Scanmar international, they are very helpful.

Fair winds,

[sethjohns]

I have an 1982 vintage Aires now, which I prefer..


I had a 2006 Monitor, but IMO it was fidgety.


As for the Aires, I wonder if anyone else has tried to buy spares from the Amsterdam outfit. I've exchanged several emails with them to no avail. When I sent them pictures they told me my unit wasn't an Aires. When I sent close ups of the cast in metal, raised branding "Aires - Cowes England" they stopped replying to my emails.


Any information re alternative sources for Aires parts?

[areddon]

As others have said, "it depends"

FWIW I love my Cap Horn which has:

A ton of power in strong wind

The best footprint of any winvane .... unobtrusive, no lines in cockpit, great minimal appearance on stern ... no oil rig appearance

The ability to add an emergency tiller (fairly small though)

The ability to easily swing paddle up out of water and stow it there

Good mechanism to prevent damage upon striking something ... no parts to replace

Great warranty and fantastic support ... you can get the owner on the phone or by email easily

Ability to control pendulum by small tillerpilot in low wind or while motoring for low electricity and low wear on pilot but full servo pendulum power to steer

Ability to be designed at any height to clear Bimini, Davits or arch.

The only "cons" are slight increase in complication of install (did it myself with no trouble but a fair bit if time) and less than perfect performance in very light air downwind conditions ... the latter probably being true of most windvanes

[Mediator]

Originally Posted by Fi2010

The Monitor has a break away bar in case a sailor runs over something or a vessel is severely knocked down. All you have to do is remove the bent bar and replace it with a new one. An extra part provided with the initial purchase. Never heard of welds failing. However, there was another brand windvane that broke apart during the Golden Globe.

Correct, the breakaway tubes are what caused trouble during GGR2018. They can be replaced at sea although it would be a pain in a storm. I believe Scanmar now sells a stronger version of the tube for those who want to sail in the southern ocean out of season... for everybody else it's a non-issue.

We had to order parts during our installation (used unit) and customer service from Scanmar is top notch.

I'm sure other wind vanes are great, this is just the only one I have first hand experience with.

[Davo1404]

Originally Posted by Mapoftassie

Hi, Thanks Jim and Ann
Sound advice! I will see how I can set it up to remove the davits and purchase a wind vane. ...Much appreciated.
Merry Xmas
Mapoftassie

The davits should be fine, just leave them in place. As Jim says put the dinghy on the deck when using the wind vane. We have a Fleming vane & it can be unbolted easily, just leaving the hull brackets still in place. This would still allow you to use the davits for short coastal hops.

[gauravshinde]

Originally Posted by oceanshoretiga

I understand the the next Golden Globe Race will require one of three windvane alternative. Aries is one of those but, off the top of my head, not sure what the other two are to be (I THINK Hydrovane and Windpilot). Cape Horn is hard to fit when a transome rudder and would require some serious work on a steel

Not really. The rule in the race is that you can choose your own wind-vane but you will have to convince the race committee that your WVSS is built or modified to take the everything that will be thrown at it in the race.

I for one intend to go with Cape Horn because a lot of boats like mine have used them for over 15-20 years. I have a Baba 35 and lots of Tayana 37s have the Cape Horn. Plus Yves is driving distance for me so his support in installation and finding out everything about the wind-vane will be essential. I like the Hydrovane too but I like the fact that the servo pendulum vanes will use the actual rudder for steering vs using an auxiliary rudder. Also, the Cape Horn has an emergency rudder attachment as well.

But... I am shamelessly open to changing my mind on which WVSS I use if there are sponsorship $$$ involved.

But that is just me, most of the competitors in the 2022 race are going for Hydrovane because there were two on the podium. I haven’t heard any real reasoning, just following the leader. There were two wind pilots and one Aries boats who finished too. But WindPilot has refused to equip any boats of the 2022 race.

It’s all about which one you are comfortable with. I found one friend with Cape Horn and another with Hydrovane to go sailing with. I like both, but CH has a few more things going for it- the price, access to Yves and experience of boat owners for a similar design of boat.

But by no means am I an expert, maybe ask me in 2023 for a definitive answer or follow me on my blogs.

[gauravshinde]

In the 2022 race, as far as I know, Robin Davie is using his Monitor WV which he has always used and prefers. Monitor now has a new thickness of breakaway bars thing that is called the GGR mod.

As far as I know John Clarke’s boat and Tapio have WindPilot’s which they will replace, Pat Lawless has an Aries. Rest all I think are Hydrovane.

[Marathon1150]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Most folks who have both a wind vane and an auto pilot tend to use the a/p inshore and the vane on offshore passages. Following this credo means that you could keep the davits and use them when not offshore, relying upon the a/p. When going offshore, deck the dinghy and mount the vane.

Having said that, when we had both we used the wind vane nearly all the time, including coastal or even day sails... but that isn't what I observe these days.

Finally, I don't like davits and wouldn't have them on my boat (and they would be easy to add to our solar arch). Despite their unquestioned convenience, I think when a dinghy is hoisted in them they are unseaworthy, ugly and performance robbing.

Many others disagree...

Jim

I agree with all of the above

But, we have a Hydrovane, two autopilots, and no davits. If I were to revise this situation, I would do as suggested in the quote - use the windvane offshore with the dinghy stored on deck. Use the davits for the dinghy inshore even though they are truly ugly (IMHO).

One of our autopilots is on the wheel so not the best, and the other is a tiller pilot for the Hydrovane. The performance of the latter using the vain or the tiller pilot has been peerless. The tiller pilot uses less power but steers the boat as well as the wheel pilot (yes I know, wheel pilots are wimpy). I would not hesitate to install another Hydrovane on this boat but I agree that much depends on the boat.

We chose the Hydrovane because it steers its own rudder, there are no lines in the cockpit and it can serve as an emergency rudder.

I should also add that the responsiveness (speed and helpfulness) of the Hydrovane company personnel is exceptional. Amongst the best that I have experienced even 12 years after buying the unit.

[johnmort]

Originally Posted by SVTatia

My 3 choices are
Cape Horn
Wind Pilot
Hydrovane

In that order. But the best really depends...

You'd need to choose between the davits or windvane. The two do not get along very well.

I would add Scanmar to the above list.
Also types of vain wind only or pendulum assisted.
Wind only vanes like Hydrovane cannot correct for yaw, where as a pendulum associated vane can and is a true all round helming option.

[CarinaPDX]

Wind vane self-steering is not really a plug-and-play thing. Setting up a new vane for a boat is greatly helped by understanding how it works. Letcher's book was a real game-changer for the industry: prior to his book vane designs were seat-of-pants. Letcher was an aeronautical engineer (out of Stanford IIRC) and applied engineering principles to the problem. Although it was not as dense a read as it might have been it does have a few formulas and non-technical folks might find it a bit much. Fortunately Peter over at WindPilot wrote a much more accessible book, "Self-steering Under Sail". Buy new, used, or e-book on Amazon cheap. Of course it is partially an advertisement for the WindPilot, and at least my old copy isn't current with competitors' models, it is a good intro to vanes. Both to help in a purchase and in setting up a new vane it is well worth it.

Greg

[johnmort]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

Agreed. The Hydrovane can act as an emergency rudder. That, to me, makes all the difference in the world.

So can the Scanmar Marine monitor wind vane with a interchangeable rudder.

[CarinaPDX]

I keep forgetting to mention another old manufacturer of quality wind vanes: Sailomat. They are built on the same principles as other servo-pendulum gear, and have been kept updated through the years. SAILOMAT . I helped with a new install while I was in Gib - it seemed to be quality gear. The owner's new Jeanneau 37' did present one problem: the steering wheel was 1 turn lock-to-lock, while the gear was designed for 2-3 turns IIRC. This meant that the vane would try to move more with less force than optimal. I recommended adding a pair of blocks to increase the purchase to 2:1, which he did. I got an email from the Canaries: it seems he reverted to 1:1 and - surprise! - it didn't work well at all, but the 2:1 worked great.

Some lessons here: there is a bit more to wind vanes than mounting them on the transom, and when you don't know the answer ask around (what CF is all about).

Greg