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Old 12-04-2019, 07:14   #46
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Re: Walker Bay Genesis 10' structural failure

It is described in the owners manual, how to lift the boat in Davit and Cradles and it comes from the factory with "Davit lifting points"
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:17   #47
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Re: Walker Bay Genesis 10' structural failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heldenberg View Post
It is described in the owners manual, how to lift the boat in Davit andCradles and it comes from the factory with "Davit lifting points"
If the spacing of the davits is wrong, or the lines are attached incorrectly, it will apply an out-of-plane stress loading to the surface, which can cause a fracture.
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:58   #48
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Re: Walker Bay Genesis 10' structural failure

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Originally Posted by KD8NPB View Post
The boat was not designed for your aftermarket davit system. That is not the fault of the manufacturer.

///

Suggested repairs:
Grind out the crack in to a v-profile (grind should be 12 x the width of the crack or more)

Clean with MEK solvent
Use a propane torch to flame treat the repair section
Clean with alcohol solvent
Use West System Gflex 650 with silica to thicken to fill.
Gflex 650 with 1708 glass to reinforce

After cured, sand/fair surface, wash with soap and water to remove amine. Solvent wipe, and paint.

Done.
You're clearly an expert. What after market davit system was the boat designed for?
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Old 12-04-2019, 08:00   #49
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Re: Walker Bay Genesis 10' structural failure

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Originally Posted by KD8NPB View Post
If the spacing of the davits is wrong, or the lines are attached incorrectly, it will apply an out-of-plane stress loading to the surface, which can cause a fracture.
Again, you are clearly an expert. What exactly is the correct spacing & exactly how should the lines be attached?
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:01   #50
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Re: Walker Bay Genesis 10' structural failure

"After market davits system"?
I'm not sure what that means🤔
Your post is a red flag for anyone who is thinking about buying a Genesis and hanging it from davits.
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:18   #51
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Re: Walker Bay Genesis 10' structural failure

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Originally Posted by Scout 30 View Post
Again, you are clearly an expert. What exactly is the correct spacing & exactly how should the lines be attached?
And if the tolerance margins for doing it correctly are so tight, the fact they're not properly & publicly documented is a fail by the company.

In reality, the design and construction of such an expensive quality product should accommodate a wide range of davit mounting specs.
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:02   #52
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Re: Walker Bay Genesis 10' structural failure

Addison Chan, a close cruising buddy, entered a thread on Facebook, started by someone at least as irritated as I, and who also made a web page with many citations from this thread. He, too, had the same failure, which WB solved with an entire new dinghy, relatively quickly. However, his was still under warranty, regardless of how constructed (from the first failure to the 4th, now successful replacement, was a relatively brief period, and the original warranty period still governed. I don't have that luxury, my original dink having been purchased slightly more than 10 years before this issue arose on the 7-year old replacement; they held that the original purchase warranty was all they'd allow..

If you'd like to participate in that thread, here's the link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1484...2379483392088/

I am, however, irritated that the initial response was to deny on alteration. When I demanded an engineering reason for the failure they went to expired of age, and tried to sell me a hull. I demanded to know why that one, given that I'd have to put on the lifting points, would not do the same; no response, other than to reiterate improper lifting as the cause.

When I documented that I had been instructed to do so by the factory, and a dealer had demonstrated and attempted to sell the St. Croix lifts, it became a free hull.

But it should have been, "Yes, we've seen that on several occasions and it's an issue we've resolved by added backup/strength/I-forget-what in your new hull. However, your hull is out of warranty. As an accommodation, we'll send you a new hull, but you pay shipping and installation."

That would have been some months ago, and I'd have the swap, rather than having to find out its commonality via my Cruisers Forum post and threads like this on Facebook, and STILL not have my replacement...

From the most recent communication, it seems that there may be a translation error, as issues not on the table are discussed, and nowhere do they admit that others have had this issue without lifting, or by lifting by factory hard points, with or without engine attached:

From: Ivan Gamez
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 12:01 PM
To: 'Skip Gundlach'
Cc: warranty@walkerbay.com ; stefanorista@walkerbay.com
Subject: RE: Minor revision... Re: Warranty question...
Hi Skip ,



Please find the answers/ confirmation below from previous mail



1.- We are offering a new hull free of charge , you will have to incur on the freight and labor to get this installed. Will need a full shipping address move forward on this.



2.- For this replacement we will add a reinforced backing plate to prevent this on the future , but please consider that you will need to comply with WBB recommendations for lifting the boat.



3.-The deformation of the floor could have occurred due to the modification of the lifting points and with the time lead to the issue with the floor.



4.-The replacement hull it comes with the repairs seal kit (for the transom) , reinforced backing plates only .



5.-As for the current hull (damaged) you can have it destroyed/dispose once you are done with the swap .



6.- As soon as you provide the shipping address we can make the arrangements and provide you with an ETA for the new hull.



Thanks inn advance



Ivan Gamez

They've not responded to my simple questions, sent March 28th:

Thanks for getting back with me.

Just to be clear/confirm my understanding:

In my replacement hull, I will not be receiving mounting or lifting hardware, wheels, housings or spray deflectors, keel strip (I need one of those; I have the others mentioned), bilge plug assembly, or floor system parts. All parts removed from my current hull will transfer to the new hull (other than that I donít have a keel strip and need one) without fitment issues.


Is there any other part I may have missed in my mental inventory of what is part of the hull that I will have to transfer from my current hull? Are any of the hardware items needed to make swaps into the new hull of various parts taken from the old hull likely to need replacement and unlikely to be easily sourced locally?

And, as I canít visualize them/it, what/where is a reinforced backing plate? Is this to address the potential for the same failure on the new hull (which the best my mind can imagine likely was a product of lifting with the transom eyes, causing the weight of the hull to be supported by hinges only)?

What is the lead time from now (or order date for shipping costs and if not supplied a keel strip) until Iíd have the new hull? Iím expecting Iíd be sending it to Offshore Rafting (offshorerafting.com) in Sebastian FL (735 Commerce Center Drive Unit E Sebastian, FL 32958).

As a practical matter, as it seems the exterior black plastic used in the spray shields and keel strip are not UV stable (or maybe salt water kills them?), should I buy additional spray shields (I already have a pair but didnít install them) and TWO keel strips? Or are the new ones some different plastic (I got the splash strips only Ė see prior correspondence - before as that was all that had failed at the time) which doesnít deteriorate at the same rate?

So, in summary:

What added parts will I need to make the hull complete, and what cost does that represent (keel strip is the only one I can think of currently unless you recommend having replacements for both the keel strip and splash deflectors)?

What is the cost of shipping to Sebastian FL and how long from payment (maybe today?) until receipt?

Where are the reinforcement backing plates and what do they do?

Thanks.

I have had two 'read-receipts' from folks other than Ivan, but still no response.

I, too, await clarification from KD8NPB, as there is no practical way to lift this dinghy via the factory hard points - even if I had davits spaced that widely - without abrading the forward tube, and the floor deformation he refers to was the prior factory instruction of lift points using eye bolts in the floor system; the St. Croix padeyes have NO hull or floor distortion...
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Old 12-04-2019, 12:37   #53
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Re: Walker Bay Genesis 10' structural failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout 30 View Post
You're clearly an expert. What after market davit system was the boat designed for?
To put it simply ; it appears it simply wasn't.

The owners manual leaves it so open ended, the manufacturer can effectively deny any warranty claim quite easily though. Or accept it. It's up to them.


In general though;
Best practice when lifting is to keep the sling as close to 0 degrees in plane with the u-bolt or eyelet as possible. As the sling applies load off-plane, it'll start applying severe shear stresses, which can potentially break the lifting mount or break the material around it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
And if the tolerance margins for doing it correctly are so tight, the fact they're not properly & publicly documented is a fail by the company.

In reality, the design and construction of such an expensive quality product should accommodate a wide range of davit mounting specs.
It is possible to "idiotproof" the engineering to compensate for out-of-plane stresses, but that adds material, which adds cost, which kills margins, which kills manufacturers.

Since the inclusion of the Chinese flooding the market with low-cost tenders, dinghies have become a "commodity" so all primary manufacturers have been cutting back in various ways in order to reduce prices.
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Old 12-04-2019, 12:39   #54
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Re: Walker Bay Genesis 10' structural failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipgundlach View Post

I, too, await clarification from KD8NPB, as there is no practical way to lift this dinghy via the factory hard points - even if I had davits spaced that widely - without abrading the forward tube, and the floor deformation he refers to was the prior factory instruction of lift points using eye bolts in the floor system; the St. Croix padeyes have NO hull or floor distortion...
I'm happy to help.

Do you have pictures of your RIB hoisted, so I can see how the davits and the lines lay out?
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Old 12-04-2019, 14:12   #55
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Re: Walker Bay Genesis 10' structural failure

Here's some other things that kill manufacturers: bad products, bad customer service, and a bad reputation.
My Genesis was not a victim of improper davits, the hull cracked around both wheel wells not the lifting mount or the material around. It broke when I hit a wave. I know because it squirted me in the ankle and it kept squirting water every time I hit a wave after that. Before I get accused of raft abuse, let me tell you that I am over sixty years old and have four bad discs in my lower back - I should have broken before the raft did!
I told Ivan that as far as I was concerned the davit excuse was just a smoke screen for the real issue - bad design.
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Old 12-04-2019, 14:32   #56
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Re: Walker Bay Genesis 10' structural failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by KD8NPB View Post
I'm happy to help.

Do you have pictures of your RIB hoisted, so I can see how the davits and the lines lay out?
My phone six

So I can't properly respond

But look up in the thread and you will see the link..
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Old 12-04-2019, 14:33   #57
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Re: Walker Bay Genesis 10' structural failure

Can,y even spell s u x
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Old 12-04-2019, 14:34   #58
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Re: Walker Bay Genesis 10' structural failure

I see that you may mean the padeyes

That will have to wait ...
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Old 12-04-2019, 16:47   #59
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Re: Walker Bay Genesis 10' structural failure

My arch design can be seen here:
Pictures: Flying Pig Early Refit + Projects/Research_Before_Building_Our_Arch

There's some pictures of our original dinghy, which had factory hard points at the width I specified for the davits portion of the arch:
Pictures: Flying Pig Early Refit + Projects/Flying_Pig_Has_Flown-Splash_and_More_Work/10-09-06Launch_Day

I don't think I have any more detailed pix of the dinghy in the davits. However, it's a multi purchase pulley set which clips to the cables supplied with the St. Croix system (installation of that can be seen here: Pictures: Flying Pig 2011-2012 Refit/Last Minute Stuff/New Dinghies Under Warranty/Walker Bay/2 - New Dinghy/Lifting System Replacement - this section shows the dinghy in the davits reasonably well).

I strap under the dinghy to the bow ring and the far stern ring (I added eye nuts outside, replacing the nylocks it came with) in a cross-pattern to keep it from swinging.

Clicking on any of the pictures in my gallery will allow you to enlarge what you see.

Hope that helps.
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Old 12-04-2019, 17:37   #60
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Re: Walker Bay Genesis 10' structural failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by KD8NPB View Post

clip...


In general though;
Best practice when lifting is to keep the sling as close to 0 degrees in plane with the u-bolt or eyelet as possible. As the sling applies load off-plane, it'll start applying severe shear stresses, which can potentially break the lifting mount or break the material around it.

clip...
You may not be able to tell from the pictures I cited above, but the angle of pull on the lift system is directly up; the padeyes are centered on the centerline of the davit(s) tubing.

NO hull deformation has been seen with this system. The floor deformation cited earlier was for the factory solution which had eye bolts backed up with fender washers, through the floor system itself.

While it WAS factory spec, and I have found the correspondence relating to that with Walker Bay, showing pix of the floor system failure would not be germane to this thread. However, the potential for failure on THAT modus was very high, and I expect WB no longer recommends it for lifting...
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