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Old 20-12-2018, 19:22   #31
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

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Newsflash: There won’t be another nuclear reactor built in America for well over the next 100 years. Fossel fuels are here to stay.
Until they run out. Fossil fuels will run out. Not in your lifetime, but less than the 100 years you predict.

https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/our-gre...f-fossil-fuels
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Old 20-12-2018, 22:46   #32
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

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Until they run out. Fossil fuels will run out. Not in your lifetime, but less than the 100 years you predict.



https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/our-gre...f-fossil-fuels


Crude oil to make fossil fuels may run out but there will always be “fossil fuels” since they can literally be made out of thin air. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisc...ss?wprov=sfti1

Some sort of liquid fuel will always be available, they are just to convenient and too good a compromise between energy density and safety.
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Old 21-12-2018, 09:49   #33
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

torqueedo has a solar panel charging option. why not go for that. worked well in less than a 12 hour stretch of charging, can be brought with while using dink, and is not dependent upon fossil fuels.
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Old 24-12-2018, 13:08   #34
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

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If you have both the Generator and electric motor I think the only question would be is whether your charging system can keep up with the demand. There are YouTube videos on taking a cheap engine ( lawn mower) and alternator and making a high amp charger. if I ever do this I will surely use it to increase my trolling motors range.
So you propose to burn fuel in the generator at some efficiency loss so you can charge a torquido, an inadequate device for many needed runs. You could run a larger outboard for less fuel, go faster and farther without worry of being stranded. You will make compromises on anchoring and mooring position because of the torquido limitations. You will forego opportunities for diving hiking, etc because it’s too far. You will have an outboard too small to help your yacht if need arises. We live aboard in the eastern Caribbean and would not trade the ability to plane at 20 knots and bring groceries back from an eight mile each way run, or a distant dive trip over rough sea. The cost of gasoline in the total scheme of making your boat a comfortable home is negligible.
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Old 24-12-2018, 14:14   #35
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

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Inspired by some of the threads here such as diesel outboards, electric outboards with solar and recharged back at the mother ship, I thought I would make a proposal for discussion.

How about just using your generator to give your torqeedo more range in emergencies as in 10% of the time. Mostly you are just traveling 200 meters a few times a day, so the battery would keep up and then at night receive a mother ship charge. However to give it that little extra for longer trips, then just pickup your 2kw honda and stick it in the dinghy.
Advantages are...you already have the honda so why not take advantages of an extremely modular system that has individually manageable components, not like the heavy outboard that strains your back every so often.

I know, I know, you don't want gas onboard, you don't have a honda generator, the electric solution is too slow and has no range, this is all too complicated etc etc.....
Your portable Honda generator will make a nice target for theives along the warf when you’re ashore trying to enjoy yourselves. IMHO
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Old 24-12-2018, 15:10   #36
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

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There's no doubt humanity is transitioning away from fossil fuels. Everything about boats is a compromise & electric propulsion is no exception. There are viable options but you cannot gloss over the limitations, ie, speed & distance. With 2 batteries & an efficient displacement hull this can work as long as you have a viable way to recharge the batteries & right now that's probably not solar.

a. It is not clear we are transitioning away in this generation. I clearly recall the warnings in the 70s that we would be out of oil by the late 80s. I'm not a climate denier, I'm just not sure there is "no doubt."


b. Transitioning from fossil fuel is NOT equivalent to transitioning away from liquid fuels. Ethanol, for example, will probably make more sense that solar for this sort of propulsion. Biodiesel is another.



c. The graph in post 31 is a flimsy projection by a group with an adjenda. I've seen many like that in the past.


Just sayin', we should not assume PV is the only path forward. It is only one of many.
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Old 25-12-2018, 08:15   #37
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

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So you propose to burn fuel in the generator at some efficiency loss so you can charge a torquido, an inadequate device for many needed runs. You could run a larger outboard for less fuel, go faster and farther without worry of being stranded. You will make compromises on anchoring and mooring position because of the torquido limitations. You will forego opportunities for diving hiking, etc because it’s too far. You will have an outboard too small to help your yacht if need arises. We live aboard in the eastern Caribbean and would not trade the ability to plane at 20 knots and bring groceries back from an eight mile each way run, or a distant dive trip over rough sea. The cost of gasoline in the total scheme of making your boat a comfortable home is negligible.
?? First I own two dinghys. speaking to the choir. I totally agree with having an engine big enough to move your Mothership is the best choice for some. What if you don't have an outboard? Just an electric motor. Then using your generator if it has the ability to keep up would give you more range. As far as theft goes an outboard or a generator or rib are all high on the riskiness of theft. As a side note: in calm weather I moved my 40 foot vessel with a 30 lb thrust trolling motor and if I had a generator to keep the battery topped up I would have used it. edit I also believe that for many people having a short distance tender works perfectly.
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Old 25-12-2018, 08:38   #38
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

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?? First I own two dinghys. speaking to the choir. I totally agree with having an engine big enough to move your Mothership is the best choice for some. What if you don't have an outboard? Just an electric motor. Then using your generator if it has the ability to keep up would give you more range. As far as theft goes an outboard or a generator or rib are all high on the riskiness of theft. As a side note: in calm weather I moved my 40 foot vessel with a 30 lb thrust trolling motor and if I had a generator to keep the battery topped up I would have used it. edit I also believe that for many people having a short distance tender works perfectly.

Well, the question was " Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator"

If you need more range than a full Torqeedo batterey (or two) can provide, then in my opinion the obvious answer is the small petrol outboard, and I think that's what a lot of folks on here have been saying.


A Honda 2kW suitcase gen weighs 21 kg (so in combo with a Torqeedo, heavier than a small petrol outboard), can be easily killed with a splash of sea water, would represent a significant shock hazard in a dinghy, would create a problem of what to do with the exhaust without burning a hole in the dinghy tubes, and has other disadvantages others have pointed out. It is uniquely unsuitable to this kind of duty.


This is a really bad idea. Get the small petrol outboard. Torqeedo great for short-distance duty -- I'm considering one myself.


If you need range, you are likely to need power as well, for more speed, to cover that distance you need the range for. That's not the kind of duty a Torqeedo is good for, with or without this very bad generator idea.
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Old 25-12-2018, 08:49   #39
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Yeah but if you read a little further he says less than 10% of the time using the generator for extended range. And I said it can work if you already have both, I never recommended getting a generator specifically to charge the trolling motor instead of buying an outboard. I've had a bunch of Outboards over the years. the small Outboards have always given
me problems with their carburetors( smaller Jets). choices all come down to exactly how you're going to use it.
And many people already have a generator
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Old 25-12-2018, 08:56   #40
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

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Yeah but if you read a little further he says less than 10% of the time using the generator for extended range. And I said it can work if you already have both, I never recommended getting a generator specifically to charge the trolling motor instead of buying an outboard. I've had a bunch of Outboards over the years. the small Outboards have always given
me problems with their carburetors( smaller Jets). choices all come down to exactly how you're going to use it.

Well, everyone will choose for himself, but the disadvantages of carrying a running generator in a dinghy have been described pretty well.


If you have both a Torqeedo and a small petrol outboard, so you're not using the small petrol outboard that often (<10%), then that makes it less burdensome to shut off the fuel cock and run the carb dry every time you use it. Maybe even put some fuel preservative in it. In my experience, the jets of small petrol outboards do just fine if you're careful not to leave fuel standing in them for long periods.
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Old 25-12-2018, 10:06   #41
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

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Torqueedo sells a small solar panel that can extend the range of the small outboards, but the best bet is just to carry a spare battery along.
If I was using a Torqueedo powered dink regularly, I would probably want to have 3-4 batteries for it so one could be in use with a second as a spare and the third on the mothership charging.
If you are going with an electric outboard, chances are you have a decent solar setup to recharge the battery bank.
In a few more years new batteries will probably be solid state, or some configuration like Sodium Air and they will hold much more energy than the Lithium batteries of today.

I have an electric car and I have seen videos of people charging them from a Honda 2000 and it is very slow. A car can take 3-4 miles of range per hour from a 110 outlet at 15 amps. I know the Torqueedo battery is much smaller, but you would still use a lot of gas running the little generator if you were charging it often.

The land based power grid is changing rapidly with many states now getting 40% of their daily power from wind alone. Yesterday they sold leases off Martha's Vineyard for wind farms that will power millions of homes.
That's leaving aside the increasing efficiency and cheapness of solar panels.
Using a Honda gas powered generator to charge an electric car has to be about the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard of. What were those people thinking?
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Old 25-12-2018, 10:15   #42
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Electric propulsion will make inroads on the water at some point, but need purpose engineered design of all the parts working together.

Redneck kludges are not a good idea just to get on the bandwagon
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Old 25-12-2018, 12:06   #43
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuss View Post
Inspired by some of the threads here such as diesel outboards, electric outboards with solar and recharged back at the mother ship, I thought I would make a proposal for discussion.



How about just using your generator to give your torqeedo more range in emergencies as in 10% of the time. Mostly you are just traveling 200 meters a few times a day, so the battery would keep up and then at night receive a mother ship charge. However to give it that little extra for longer trips, then just pickup your 2kw honda and stick it in the dinghy.

Advantages are...you already have the honda so why not take advantages of an extremely modular system that has individually manageable components, not like the heavy outboard that strains your back every so often.



I know, I know, you don't want gas onboard, you don't have a honda generator, the electric solution is too slow and has no range, this is all too complicated etc etc.....

I think it would work fine for occasional use if you already have or are going to acquire the generator for other purposes.

If you are building the system from scratch then you can consider other options.

How much range are you looking for and how fast?

If you want long range at the toqueedo’s full throttle speed then maybe a switch to a small gas outboard would work better.

If long range at reduced speed is acceptable then maybe a spare battery and a solar panel on the dinghy.

Or for about $500 you can get a 1.2hp outboard that would have indefinite range at moderate speed.
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Old 25-12-2018, 14:56   #44
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

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I know, I know, you don't want gas onboard, you don't have a honda generator, the electric solution is too slow and has no range, this is all too complicated etc etc.....
I love the idea of electric, but for many cruisers on a budget it's not a great option at the moment.

This has been brought up in other threads, but I think propane-powered outboards represent an excellent middle ground between petrol and electric. We just bought a 5hp propane Tohatsu with an external 11lb tank for a third of the price of a 5hp Torqueedo, and since we already use propane for cooking we don't need to worry about carrying an additional fuel. It's worth consideration
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Old 27-12-2018, 20:09   #45
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Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

I took the plunge and bought Torqueedo 1003 with large battery. My 2 stroke outboard maintenance games will stop

Will lighten boat stern in total for 50 kg.

Lessen amount of petrol to carry.

Increase space in dinghy as no more fuel tank - less need for larger dinghy.

Davits will have to carry 30 kg less.

Analysis of way we use dinghy indicated that there was no single time that we really required more power or range than T 1003 provides.

Will be powered from my newly acquired lithium batteries / solar. Expecting to use around 100 AH for full charge, which is just fine with 360 W panels.

Cats do not really need dinghy as tug boats.
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