Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-12-2018, 17:00   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Boat: Bristol 27 #335
Posts: 7,357
Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
Gas engines are also often unreliable and need regular servicing.
Sure they need servicing but usually it's a once a year thing. As far as the gas, I usually have 3-5 gallons onboard stored in different containers.

There is no smell near where you the sailor would be
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2018, 17:08   #17
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 30,780
Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

I would not combine a generator with an electric outboard. That is a bastard union with disadvantages of both types of propulsion.


I like Torqueedo and I see a few very serious advantages:


1. No futzing with carburetors, impellers, any of the rest of that carp.
2. No sourcing and storage of gasoline/petrol.
3. No noise
4. Store anywhere
5. Extremely light and easy to handle and set up in the dinghy -- light to start with, then breaks down into two separate parts for totally simple handling.


These advantages are kind of awesome.


Downsides are:


1. Limited power and range
2. Need to charge it
3. Expensive.


Those are not terrible disadvantages, at least for my use. For 90% of my dinghy trips, the power and range is just fine. Charging it could be a challenge for some sailors, but on my electric-intensive boat with heavy duty generator, no big deal. The expense -- well, it's an expense.


For 10% of my dinghy trips, I need more power and/or range.




So why not have both? A gas outboard of maximum rated size for your dinghy, PLUS a Torqueedo. That's the solution I'm leaning towards.
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-être pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2018, 17:12   #18
Registered User
 
Scout 30's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Florida
Boat: Scout 30
Posts: 3,107
Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

We should not pretend that there are no maintenance issues with electric outboards. I seem to remember that Torqueedo has had some problems & we are talking about mixing electricity with salt water.
Scout 30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2018, 18:19   #19
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alita49DS View Post
All possibly true but probably irrelevant. Having gone from a 5HP 4 stroke Honda, 2 strokes are illegal to sell in the EU, to a Torqeedo I appreciate the fact that I have got less for more money:

Less weight. Less danger to my back. Less probable damage to my gel coat. Less likelihood of an explosion from petrol. Less mess. Less maintenance. Less chance of theft as the parts can be locked out of sight on the boat and the control taken when leaving the tender. Less noise. Less delay in starting. Less lag.

Everybody has different needs, but for most less distance is about as irrelevant as not having a car capable of 200mph. When you get to Italy you will probably find that out.
You’ll also have less chance of pushing or pulling your mother ship should the need arrise and less chance and probability of success in getting back to your anchorage safely if caught out in the wind, and of course much less of a chance of pushing another yacht out of your way when they’re dragging anchor directly towards you.

You’re correct, “Everyone has different needs” and priorities. BTW: I’ve been living in Italy for the past three years and know a thing or two about Bora and Maestrale winds and how they can come up in a hurry and unexpectedly. I’ll stick with our 40hp 2 stroke, thank you.
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2018, 18:32   #20
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
The reason to look at is not simply economics. Electric is clean, renewable, quite and eliminates the need to carry smelly and dangerous cans of gas. Gas engines are also often unreliable and need regular servicing. In many places 2t is already banned or restricted. So for me there are big attractions to going to electric and while it is not possible for a main engine yet it is definitely becoming practical for dinghies.

Many places are looking at time frames for eliminating gas power cars already so I am sure we will see those moves in the marine sector as well so why not be ahead of the game? Within 20 years we are all likely to be living in a 'post fossel fuel economy' living in a zero emission house or boat and driving an electric car/dingy. Early adopters frequently find themselves in a good position when major change occurs so why not look at it now.
There is also the moral position. The move away from a carbon dependent economy is a necessity for survival of our species so anything we, as individuals, can do to help the transition I believe we should do. This is not 'doomsday scenarios' this is real and now, California is burning, the gulf coast and Florida is flooding, the Caribbean is being flattened by hurricanes. These are not accidents or blips this is global warming on track and exactly as predicted. What we all do in the next 20 years make the difference between an orderly transition to a sustainable future or a collapse of the global economy but one way or another change will happen.
Please let us know when you find that unicorn grazing under the rainbow.

Newsflash: There won’t be another nuclear reactor built in America for well over the next 100 years. Fossel fuels are here to stay.
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2018, 19:17   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 73
Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Torqueedo sells a small solar panel that can extend the range of the small outboards, but the best bet is just to carry a spare battery along.
If I was using a Torqueedo powered dink regularly, I would probably want to have 3-4 batteries for it so one could be in use with a second as a spare and the third on the mothership charging.
If you are going with an electric outboard, chances are you have a decent solar setup to recharge the battery bank.
In a few more years new batteries will probably be solid state, or some configuration like Sodium Air and they will hold much more energy than the Lithium batteries of today.

I have an electric car and I have seen videos of people charging them from a Honda 2000 and it is very slow. A car can take 3-4 miles of range per hour from a 110 outlet at 15 amps. I know the Torqueedo battery is much smaller, but you would still use a lot of gas running the little generator if you were charging it often.

The land based power grid is changing rapidly with many states now getting 40% of their daily power from wind alone. Yesterday they sold leases off Martha's Vineyard for wind farms that will power millions of homes.
That's leaving aside the increasing efficiency and cheapness of solar panels.
__________________
Ken
Volkeno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2018, 19:29   #22
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkeno View Post
Torqueedo sells a small solar panel that can extend the range of the small outboards, but the best bet is just to carry a spare battery along.
If I was using a Torqueedo powered dink regularly, I would probably want to have 3-4 batteries for it so one could be in use with a second as a spare and the third on the mothership charging.
If you are going with an electric outboard, chances are you have a decent solar setup to recharge the battery bank.
In a few more years new batteries will probably be solid state, or some configuration like Sodium Air and they will hold much more energy than the Lithium batteries of today.

I have an electric car and I have seen videos of people charging them from a Honda 2000 and it is very slow. A car can take 3-4 miles of range per hour from a 110 outlet at 15 amps. I know the Torqueedo battery is much smaller, but you would still use a lot of gas running the little generator if you were charging it often.

The land based power grid is changing rapidly with many states now getting 40% of their daily power from wind alone. Yesterday they sold leases off Martha's Vineyard for wind farms that will power millions of homes.
That's leaving aside the increasing efficiency and cheapness of solar panels.
40%.... there’s no way.

I’ve yet to see a solar panel which works at night or on a cloudy, rainy or snowy day. And windmills don’t fuction very well on calm days or at night... when it’s generally calm.

How do I know this you may ask? My home and business have been powered by solar for the past 12 years.
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2018, 20:03   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 73
Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Usually they balance the wind and solar with natural gas power stations that can start up and stop as needed. Where I live in the Pacific Northwest we get 85% from hydro and most of the rest from wind and solar.

According to Wikipedia- 20 states get at least 5% from wind. Texas has the most, getting 14.8% but powering over 6 million homes. The US overall gets about 6.3%, but almost all has been in the last ten years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_p...power_by_state

According to the Wind Energy Association Texas and Iowa did not have over 40% for the year of 2017, but Iowa was close. I know several of the midwest states have gotten over 40% for periods of time though. For the year Iowa was at 36.9% of power generated by wind. Kansas and Oklahoma weren't far behind.
https://www.awea.org/resources/fact-...e-facts-sheets

Just in my state of Washington, there are big wind farms along the Columbia River and Hood River Gorge where the wind rarely stops. Another very windy place is Vantage above the Columbia River where the wind funnels up into Snoqualmie Pass along I-90. It is very rarely not windy there. There are several other mountain passes with wind farms too.

The only thing the local power company has failed at so far is Tidal energy and Geothermal which is funny considering we have tidal ranges of 20 feet and plenty of volcanoes.
There is a place for every kind of energy except coal. Nobody has mined coal around Seattle since 1914, but we still burn wood.
__________________
Ken
Volkeno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2018, 21:31   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Missoula, MT
Boat: Flicka 20
Posts: 94
Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

If you’re looking to save the planet, get a nice rowing dingy and forget the motor. You’ll get a lot of exercise and feel better. I have a Honda 2.9 that I would never give up but I’m considering a small dingy from Gig Harbor Boatworks. Rows well and has a sailing option. I can still use the Honda if I have a longer distance to go. Hard to stow on my Flicka but I can see the advantages.

Missing from this discussion is the need to replace batteries. My friend had an early Toyota Prius. He had to replace the battery pack twice in about 100k miles. Each time it was about $7,500 USD. He spent more on batteries than I did on gas/diesel. If you start to get into lithium batteries you’ll see what I mean.

Just my two cents worth.

CaptainJohn49
CaptainJohn49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2018, 01:16   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,205
Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

A couple of thoughts:
- Where is this generator going to be placed while running? Hot exhaust against rubber hulls...seems like a bad idea. Plus if you take a wave over the bow, the generator may be toast.
- If you aren't looking at planing, I would go with a drastically cheaper trolling motor vs torqueedo and mount a couple of deep cycle batteries in the dingy. Then you can pull the batteries and charge them on the mother ship if needed.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2018, 04:48   #26
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 30,780
Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
A couple of thoughts:
- Where is this generator going to be placed while running? Hot exhaust against rubber hulls...seems like a bad idea. Plus if you take a wave over the bow, the generator may be toast.
- If you aren't looking at planing, I would go with a drastically cheaper trolling motor vs torqueedo and mount a couple of deep cycle batteries in the dingy. Then you can pull the batteries and charge them on the mother ship if needed.

Amen about the generator.


Concerning the trolling motor, however -- the Torqueedo has some great advantages in terms of packaging and storage, waterproofing, and power density in the lithium vs lead batteries. Whether it's worth it or not of course depends on the individual budget, but I would certainly go for the Torqueedo (or the new competitor, what's it called).
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-être pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2018, 04:51   #27
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 30,780
Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainJohn49 View Post
If you’re looking to save the planet, get a nice rowing dingy and forget the motor. You’ll get a lot of exercise and feel better. . . .

That is certainly true! I rowed for years to my mooring.



But inflatables row horribly, and hard dinghies are hard to store, hard to make unsinkable, need care to avoid scratching your topsides, and have other disadvantages. So this is not an option for everyone.
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-être pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2018, 08:10   #28
Registered User
 
Scout 30's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Florida
Boat: Scout 30
Posts: 3,107
Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkeno View Post
Torqueedo sells a small solar panel that can extend the range of the small outboards, but the best bet is just to carry a spare battery along.
If I was using a Torqueedo powered dink regularly, I would probably want to have 3-4 batteries for it so one could be in use with a second as a spare and the third on the mothership charging.
If you are going with an electric outboard, chances are you have a decent solar setup to recharge the battery bank.
In a few more years new batteries will probably be solid state, or some configuration like Sodium Air and they will hold much more energy than the Lithium batteries of today.

I have an electric car and I have seen videos of people charging them from a Honda 2000 and it is very slow. A car can take 3-4 miles of range per hour from a 110 outlet at 15 amps. I know the Torqueedo battery is much smaller, but you would still use a lot of gas running the little generator if you were charging it often.

The land based power grid is changing rapidly with many states now getting 40% of their daily power from wind alone. Yesterday they sold leases off Martha's Vineyard for wind farms that will power millions of homes.
That's leaving aside the increasing efficiency and cheapness of solar panels.
For the price of a Torqueedo & 3 spare batteries you could buy 3 equivalent gas outboards.
Scout 30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2018, 09:29   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Boat: Condor Trimaran 30 foot
Posts: 1,490
Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

I’m usually balanced in my approach of sorting out problems. Excuse me... smile...really? A Honda 2000 in the dingy to help power the electric Torquedo...

Do you also post a sentry when you dock the dingy? Do you have a shroud or box to protect the Honda against rain or salt water? Even the idea of carrying extra batteries kills it for me. I like the idea of rowing or a small gas outboard. Maybe I’m just too lazy to deal with all that shizzle.
alansmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2018, 19:14   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 73
Re: Small petrol outboard vs Torqeedo cruise 2 with honda generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainJohn49 View Post
If you’re looking to save the planet, get a nice rowing dingy and forget the motor. You’ll get a lot of exercise and feel better. I have a Honda 2.9 that I would never give up but I’m considering a small dingy from Gig Harbor Boatworks. Rows well and has a sailing option. I can still use the Honda if I have a longer distance to go. Hard to stow on my Flicka but I can see the advantages.

Missing from this discussion is the need to replace batteries. My friend had an early Toyota Prius. He had to replace the battery pack twice in about 100k miles. Each time it was about $7,500 USD. He spent more on batteries than I did on gas/diesel. If you start to get into lithium batteries you’ll see what I mean.

Just my two cents worth.

CaptainJohn49
If your friend still has the Prius, they can watch a couple of Youtube videos and test the battery cells to find out which ones are bad and just replace those. You can replace the entire battery in your driveway in a few hours. It's really very cheap. I found cells for $33 and an entire battery for under $1200. Toyota uses NMH batteries. My car uses Lithium and is warranted for 8 years. Since my car is only 5 years old that means it's at least 3 years before my boat gets the hand me down 23kWh battery. You can find 5.2kWh Tesla modules online for about $1200 that people are putting into RV's and boats.
__________________
Ken
Volkeno is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cruise, generator, honda, outboard

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Torqeedo Cruise 4.0 Electric Outboard philipmclaren1 Engines and Propulsion Systems 28 13-01-2018 09:08
[SOLD] Torqeedo CRUISE 4.0RL Electric Outboard Motor deepthought Classifieds Archive 2 05-08-2014 17:01
Does anyone know of a small diesel generator built like the small quiet honda type . Southern Spirit Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 7 30-11-2013 09:39
Torqeedo Cruise 4.0 Electric Motor goldiphlox Engines and Propulsion Systems 0 24-07-2012 18:59
Torqeedo Cruise 4.0R dwightsusan Multihull Sailboats 11 19-04-2010 21:40

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:34.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.