RIB repair. Hypalon and ?

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

I'm pretty sure that all Avons are hypalon, not pvc, although I'm not sure what the rubrail is made of.

My 2005 model Avon 310 Lite is hypalon.

[Jim Cate]

If the rubbing strake is moulded (ie, has some shape to it, as in a spray deflector, etc) it is almost certainly not Hypalon. The most commonly used material here is some variant of PVC. I have seen some inflatables with a simple overlay of additional cloth in way of a rubbing strake, and that could be Hypalon... but isn't as likely to come off!

Jim

[skipmac]

OK, here's where it stands.

After researching all the options for adhesive, several looked good but I decided to try the Marine Tex Flex Set.

Tested the rub rail and confirmed it is PVC.

Did a tiny bit of testing at the start to see how well the old glue removal would go. Didn't look promising but I got a couple more hints on this thread and from tech support at the various adhesive makers. BUT

Tried MEK and acetone. As someone mentioned earlier, all that does is soften the old glue and it balls up but doesn't come off. Haven't tried toluene (aka toluol) but I'll bet a bottle of cheap rum it will do the same. If I try to soften and scrape off the goo I'm estimating between 120 hours and 120 years to clean the tube.

Sanding seems to work a lot better but ran out of coarse grit so back to the store to restock. However, anywhere I wiped with solvent even the sandpaper just balls up the old stuff. Where it's dried out the sanding does a lot better.

So, suggestions? I think someone recommended a bristle (wire or fiber??) wheel on a drill. Might try a power sander. Anyone have the secret?

[hellosailor]

With "goo" that balls up and clogs, steel wool. Well, no, not on a boat, but those 3M plastic versions of it, "scrounge" pads, or the copper or brass kitchen pan scrubbers instead. Often you can get the plastic stuff cheaply as big pads for commercial floor polishers, let it clog and throw it out as it does.

[skipmac]

Have not yet picked up a metal (non steel) wool pad but tried several other techniques for abrades, scraping and similar to remove the glue. So far all of them just move the old glue around and clump it up a little but it holds very tenaciously to the rub rail and dinghy tubes and only comes off by peeling it off in small pieces.

Spoke again with tech support at Marine Tex and he agreed that the Flex Set should adhere to the glue and since the glue removal process at this point would take dozens of hours it might just be best to just leave it there and apply on top of the old.

So tested small spots on the rail and dinghy tube. The Flex Set stuck perfectly to the back of my test patch and the old glue sticks perfectly to the Marine Tex Flex Set. But if I pull off the test patch the old glue comes off with it leaving nice, clean spots on the dinghy and rub rail.



The rail installed over the old glue would probably hold for a good while but in the long run I think spots with the old glue would gradually pull away.

[hellosailor]

Burn tests: Back when Gibert made chemistry sets that had real chemicals in them, Lionel also made a batch of "educational" sets, including one with plastics, for molding, casting, and tinkering. Which came with a rather complete guide for burn tests, which are the simplest way to tell what kind of plastic you might have. Flame & smoke color, etc.
As for health issues...well, we do all know that the usual polyurethane upholstery foam burns toxicly, and is the cause for real fast deaths in most home fires, right? But folks still keep using it. And using synthetic upholstery and clothing cloth, when natural fibers would be so much safer.
Bottom line, stand upwind of anything you're not buying from a reputable dealer. Ergh, tobacconist.(G)


Meanwhile...how about a hot air gun and a paint scraper, to see if the goo will allow itself to be scraped and rolled off that way? 3M and many others actually say to use a hot air gun to remove a number of adhesive products, rather than solvents.


And, there are the "natural orange" solvents. Around here the big box stores all carry them, and one that looks like melted orangecicle (pale orange color, opaque) actually strips things so well that it TAKES OFF PAINT when normal "removers" won't touch the stuff. Caveat emptor on how that affects the plastic if it sits too long. But, it is water based and "organic".

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Meanwhile...how about a hot air gun and a paint scraper, to see if the goo will allow itself to be scraped and rolled off that way? 3M and many others actually say to use a hot air gun to remove a number of adhesive products, rather than solvents.

Good idea. Will give that a go tomorrow. It got cold tonight in N Florida and I noticed the gooey parts of the old glue got much harder and actually sanded off a little better. So the opposite might work. If the goo gets warmer maybe it will scrape more easily.

Originally Posted by hellosailor

And, there are the "natural orange" solvents. Around here the big box stores all carry them, and one that looks like melted orangecicle (pale orange color, opaque) actually strips things so well that it TAKES OFF PAINT when normal "removers" won't touch the stuff. Caveat emptor on how that affects the plastic if it sits too long. But, it is water based and "organic".

Oh yes. Know all about this stuff. Called d,limonene. Extracted from the peel of oranges during the juicing process. If you want a deal I have forty 55 gallon drums of it in a warehouse in Orlando.

[SailFastTri]

For adhesive that just balls up and gets pushed around when using solvents, I have had very satisfying results with 3M Woodgrain and Stripe Remover 08907. It converts the adhesive goop into a non-adhesive substance that has physical properties similar to bar soap, and that stuff is then easily removed cleanly using a rag wet with solvent (I used 3M General Purpose Adhesive Remover). That has saved me a ton of work.

Ps -- I don't work for 3M.

[hellosailor]

3M makes good stuff, especially for "sticky" industries.


Then again, Heloise and others say to remove sticky bubble gum, apply ICE to freeze it and make it easier to peel off. So maybe that will work here too.


I understand that in northern Florida they're opening the cold shelters and encouraging people to build fires out of their old wooden furniture, long sleeves and trousers may even be necessary for survival.(G)

[Scout 30]

Much like the Gulf people often underestimate the dangers of cold weather in Florida. It was in the 60's today when I foolishly went outside to do some yard work. Hypothermia quickly set in. Although counter intuitive a cold beer appears to be an effective remedy.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

I understand that in northern Florida they're opening the cold shelters and encouraging people to build fires out of their old wooden furniture, long sleeves and trousers may even be necessary for survival.(G)

Well it did get really cold in N Florida. I actually had to wear shoes. Brrrrr!!!

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Much like the Gulf people often underestimate the dangers of cold weather in Florida. It was in the 60's today when I foolishly went outside to do some yard work. Hypothermia quickly set in. Although counter intuitive a cold beer appears to be an effective remedy.

Low 60s? Sat morning it was 38 here. I had to get out my arctic jacket and mukluks.

[skipmac]

Update on removal of the old glue.

Tried sanding, scraping with various tools, heat gun and scraping and various solvents of increasing toxicity. Pretty much all of them just balled up the softer remnants and moved it around but the balls stayed tightly stuck to the dinghy in preference to any tool, rag or wiper I tried.

Finally hit on a combination that worked. Discovered that wiping the old adhesive with toluene turned it soft as butter and completely non sticky for about one second. Literally one second. Within 2-3 seconds the glue turned back into a gummy, gooey, very sticky mess.

So, used a rag soaked with toluene in one hand and a razor scraper in the other I would wipe and wet a section and immediately wipe the softened glue off with the razor, wipe the residue onto the edge of a board (rag didn't seem to work for this), wet another small section, scrape with the razor, etc.

One concern, try to avoid breathing the toluene vapors. Not really good for you. Also, don't breath the fumes, it might effect your brain. And don't forget the fumes, they might, uh... Something but I forget.

[Jim Cate]

One concern, try to avoid breathing the toluene vapors. Not really good for you. Also, don't breath the fumes, it might effect your brain. And don't forget the fumes, they might, uh... Something but I forget.
_

Yeah, Toluene is fairly nasty stuff. A respirator with an organic vapour cartridge would be a good investment for you, Skip! And for that job, the "good ventilation" that is recommended then increases the rate of flash-off of the solvent, making the job harder. Bugger...

Jim

PS Did you try either tri- or perchlorethelyne? They sometimes work as solvents for the same things that Toluene works on, and are much less toxic.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Yeah, Toluene is fairly nasty stuff. A respirator with an organic vapour cartridge would be a good investment for you, Skip! And for that job, the "good ventilation" that is recommended then increases the rate of flash-off of the solvent, making the job harder. Bugger...

Jim

PS Did you try either tri- or perchlorethelyne? They sometimes work as solvents for the same things that Toluene works on, and are much less toxic.

Got a respirator and just bought a new cartridge for it. Now if I could just remember where I put it.