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Old 13-01-2019, 16:28   #106
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Re: Porta-bote haters: what's not to like?

I was thinking of using a piece of 1/4” aluminum plate between the transom and the bladder, held in place by the OB bracket, to reduce transom flex. But I think some plywood would work also.
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Old 13-01-2019, 17:14   #107
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Re: Porta-bote haters: what's not to like?

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In the beginning, there was the Mangrove Jack (2.4, 3.0 & 3.3) by Flat Out Boats and designed by Western Australian boatbuilder Gavin Ager in 1999. They got bought out by Quickstep in 2006 and it eventually became the Quickboat. I spoke with someone who had a Mangrove Jack and also a Porta-Bote. His comments were the flexing of the Porta-bote was quite good for absorbing the impact in chop but the Mangrove Jack was more like a boat and better for long distances and open water.
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Old 13-01-2019, 20:06   #108
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Re: Porta-bote haters: what's not to like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caddy Shack View Post
Well if you have time I would replace all the rivets, but as they tend to fail one or two at a time we haven't been too concerned...

One thing we do now as a preventative is run a tensioned strop from the outboard and around the rear seat, to pull the transom in. This greatly reduced transom flex. We have made many successful (and had one epic fail) launching and landing in head high surf, so the PB is seaworthy. Just have a bailer tied in and ready...
I just got the Alpha and have only set it up once, but mine came with a piece of composite sheet that is attached to the transom, and rotates 90 degrees to connect to the rear thwart. Does your's not have that, or am I not understanding what your strop does?
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Old 13-01-2019, 20:21   #109
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Re: Porta-bote haters: what's not to like?

I wonder if the new Alpha series is being manufactured differently. Iíve heard a few reports of negative issues with the folding transom, and now the rivets. Iíve had the Genesis IV version for going on 15 years. Most of that was in fresh water, but the last two years have been in salt. Iím not seeing any issues with the rivets.
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Old 14-01-2019, 05:15   #110
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Re: Porta-bote haters: what's not to like?

I would like to reply to the original topic, direct experience of owners. I have had a porta-note for nearly 4 years now, bought for list price (ouch) in Canada.

Unfolding: can easily be done by one person. If itís been strapped closed and itís cold, you will need to let it loosen a bit under its own weight.

Afloat: will bonk the mothership and leave black marks if you donít put anything on the rub rails. I am considering a longer/slender fender on each side of the bow. Rows very well if you are careful. If you are not careful, the oarlocks will lift out of their channels and you need to come up with a way to secure them down. The supplied plastic oarlocks will quickly break and do not take side torque well.

It will float at the gunwales while full of water.

We use a torqeedo 1003 outboard, which breaks into several parts for assembly from deck into the boat. The motor is not on while towing except across an anchorage. A 4hp is adequate to plane with one person, and yes, planing like this makes the side ripple in an entertaining way but this is to be expected/anticipated/enjoyed.

Towing: in fair weather coastal cruising, is fine to tow on a single line. It likes to wander in following seas and needs a well-considered bridle. Will flip and go full submarine in rough weather (coming back if you stop). It really should have a healthy Ďcondomí on the front to keep the bow up, not scooping water. The supplied one is inadequate.

Tippiness: is halfway to a canoe. If you place your weight inside the footprint of the innermost fold, youíll be fine. Can be boarded from the stern from the water, but a rope ladder is a better idea than the porta-bote rigid front deck solution which is not recommended. We can have 4 people, one baby, some bags on board.

I appreciate the boteís durability. That said, I will want rid of it before something breaks and there is no sign of any original parts, exc. oarlocks, letting go. I kind of wish I held out for a PB8 or a walker bay 8, which will go in our Davits unlike the PB 10.
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Old 14-01-2019, 05:59   #111
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Re: Porta-bote haters: what's not to like?

Just a quickie note:

Use eye nuts or eye bolts and a rubber washer to mount a suitable set (4) of points to provide center-lift rings, and you are now davit-friendly.

Our hard dink has floor-mount points, but you could easily do the equivalent at the sides of a PB (we don't lift the hard dink with an engine on, either)...

These are intended for quick setup and dismantle use. If you're going to use them constantly (not breaking them down again) a nylock should replace the wing nuts, as the wing nuts can work off (or at least, even with my break-stuff-cuz-I-overtighten hands mine did).

For lifting aside to keep grunge down in foul water, an eye nut on both top transom bolts will do the trick at the stern and the tow line for the bow, for a 3-point lift. We use our spinnaker halyard to do ours...

And, the new botes are all the same material; Sandy asserts that the new tubes won't mark. That marking is the single thing we hate about our bote, but all the rest make us keep it.
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Old 14-01-2019, 09:13   #112
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Re: Porta-bote haters: what's not to like?

Quote:
Thats interesting Ike. I didnít realize the USCG managed regulations for how large an engine a given boat can carry. Without getting into too much detail, how was this done?
I apologize for not answering sooner. Got distracted by other events (such as not knowing whether I'm going to get a retirement check this month) anyway;

There are regulations for horsepower ratings for specific types of boats. They apply only to outboard powered, monohull boats under 20 feet in length. The regulations specify a formula to be used depending on the following
boats with a 20 inch transom height ( 19 in. or greater is considered 20 inches) and remote steering ( a wheel, stick steering, or other remote means of steering), and not a flat bottom hard chine hull.

boats with less than 20 inch transom height and tiller steering.

Flat bottom hard chine hulls

boats with a 2 HP or less

Each of the first three have a formula they must use to calculate maximum safe HP. this rating must be displayed on the capacity label (also a requirement) along with maximum safe load and maximum safe persons capacity.

This regulation applies to boat manufacturers (builders). It does not apply to boat owners/operators, however, some states have passed laws requiring adherence to the values on the label and in Canada and EU countries you must comply with labeled capacities. Also insurance companies have a reputation for voiding your insurance if you have an accident directly attributable to overloading or exceeding the HP rating. That alone is a better deterrent than any laws.

None of this applies to canoes, kayaks, inflatables, sailboats or multihulls. you can see this at my web site Boat Building Regulations | Safe Horsepower For Outboard Boats

I got calls from boat owners all the time asking if they could put a bigger engine on their boat. The answer was always Yes; but............ It's not a good idea. And I told them to contact the state boating authority to see if there were an state laws that affected it. Pennsylvania, Ohio and Idaho come immediately to mind, but then I'm getting old and I retired 14, ooops 15 years ago and things change.

I don't recall which model it was but one of Mr Kayes boats was rated for 5 and he wanted to rate it for 10. He even sent us a video of the boat being maneuvered through a test course (in the EU and in ABYC standards there is a test course they can use to determine safe HP) with a 10 HP motor. What he din't realize (or didn't care) the size of the O/B also affects the maximum weight capacity and the persons capacity, and how much flotation the boat is required to have. And he went through the same argument for other sizes of his boats.
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Old 14-01-2019, 09:35   #113
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Re: Porta-bote haters: what's not to like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
I wonder if the new Alpha series is being manufactured differently. I’ve heard a few reports of negative issues with the folding transom, and now the rivets. I’ve had the Genesis IV version for going on 15 years. Most of that was in fresh water, but the last two years have been in salt. I’m not seeing any issues with the rivets.
There are differences in how seats get affixed, and appear to be stronger seats.

I’ve never had a problem with the PB marking our boat although o have met others who report differently.

The basic boat, from a casual examination, appears to be identical.

All this said one boring night I was reading some PB blogs/forum threads and there was a very interesting one from Oz. They had some good insight from their distributor which was basically/roughly “They make modifications all the time and we are never really sure exactly what we will get.” IIRC when i just recently bought my 12’ Alpha, I looked at the web and they showed the 8/10/12 with one style of folding transom w/o the brace to the rear seat, that was shown on the 14 only. Yet my 12 came with the brace.

Last year I met a couple in a 10’or 12’ Alpha without a brace and they were going to add one of their own. They had a 6hp and were very uncomfortable with the amount of flex.

That’s why I’m thinking of using a bit of 1/4” aluminum, to distribute the thrust across the joint better. Stiffen it up. It’s an added step in assembly but I’m predominantly towing the Bote.

EDIT:
I just went back to the PB web site and looked at instructions. There are two different set of instructions for the ALPHA, and then the ALPHA 3000. The transoms are similar but different. IIRC what I got seems to be a blend of the two. It has locking pins AND an attachment to the rear seat. Not 100% sure on the locking pins. Only put it together once so far.
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Old 14-01-2019, 09:43   #114
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Re: Porta-bote haters: what's not to like?

Minor note:
In trying, for some years now, to deal with the marking tubing, I've had lots of correspondence with Sandy (son of the original, I believe).

Among them is that the new botes are all SS hardware and the tubing is now the same material as the sheets which make up the bote. On my original bote, I had the rivets corrode away, and just replaced them with bolts. All they do is hold the tubing to the sheet they're keeping you and stuff from scratches, as well as to somewhat stiffen the gunwales, so they're not structural in any way...
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Old 14-01-2019, 10:13   #115
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Re: Porta-bote haters: what's not to like?

Hmmm, does anyone know where Portabotes are actually manufactured? Is it all one location? Has it changed over the years? I wonder too if the materials change somewhat based on availability.

If the manufacturing process changes (either with location or materials used) this could explain some of the variability we seem to see in user reports.
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Old 14-01-2019, 10:21   #116
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Re: Porta-bote haters: what's not to like?

I am literally waiting for paint to dry.

Has anyone seen this PB modifications Facebook page? It’s a hoot!

https://m.facebook.com/groups/556827...up_header&_rdr
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Old 14-01-2019, 10:34   #117
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Re: Porta-bote haters: what's not to like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Hmmm, does anyone know where Portabotes are actually manufactured? Is it all one location? Has it changed over the years? I wonder too if the materials change somewhat based on availability.

If the manufacturing process changes (either with location or materials used) this could explain some of the variability we seem to see in user reports.
I believe it's the same place in CA (that's a state not a country) as always.

Tubes, at least now, are cut to length by the extruder, and they're so hard they require a hot box to get flexible enough to put on (I tried to buy a chunk to test before buying an entire boat-set)...
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Old 14-01-2019, 10:40   #118
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Re: Porta-bote haters: what's not to like?

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When you say the ďfolding mechanism failedĒ was that the fold in the transom that developed a crack or something else?

Mine has the crack in the transom. Iíve slowed the leak to acceptable proportions with buytel tape. Next time I have it out of the water and dried out well Iím going to remove the tape and try sealing it better with liquid electrical tape, see if I can stop the leak completly.
There is a product I found out about right here on CF called Captain Tulleys leak stop or something. Its very runny and not sticky but dang if it doesn't seal up tiny cracks and leaks. Worked for me on a weeping bath tub drain and rivets and seams on an aluminum boat. Of course clean the area as well as you can. I just flushed and poked and prodded the above areas with hot soapy water then hot fresh water....... a lot. Stuff is supposed to be good around window frames too.
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Old 14-01-2019, 10:55   #119
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Re: Porta-bote haters: what's not to like?

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Originally Posted by ejlindahl View Post
There is a product I found out about right here on CF called Captain Tulleys leak stop or something. Its very runny and not sticky but dang if it doesn't seal up tiny cracks and leaks. Worked for me on a weeping bath tub drain and rivets and seams on an aluminum boat. Of course clean the area as well as you can. I just flushed and poked and prodded the above areas with hot soapy water then hot fresh water....... a lot. Stuff is supposed to be good around window frames too.
Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure

Great for very small places that don't move a lot, that this can get into by capillary action. Not so much for a tear.

Another thing to try is EternaBond, used mostly on RV roofs.

I can't find my link, but I found 4' strips of the stuff inexpensively when I looked for it some time ago. Then the apparent leak stopped, so I've not even got it out yet...
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Old 14-01-2019, 11:26   #120
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Re: Porta-bote haters: what's not to like?

People mention black marks from the bote's rub rail. I haven't had this problem. But I think you could use some of those 5' foam pipe insulation tubes. Lowes has em for 1/2 & 3/4" pipe but I'm sure you can get em for 1.5" pipe, the 3/4" probably would work if not. Just slit the tube and put it over the rub (gunnel) rail. Maybe spiral lash it in place drilling a few holes just under the black gunnel rail.
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