Porta-bote haters: what's not to like?

[nautical62]

My apology for completely misreading this OP. Had my second shot yesteday and am very foggy today.

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by nautical62

My apology for completely misreading this OP. Had my second shot yesteday and am very foggy today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjYoNL4g5Vg

[skipgundlach]

ROFL

What the previous two posters said!

[PozitivePlanez]

So a quick question to clarify what Im aiming for. I have decided to paint the inside of me PB but now Im wondering how you would take off and reapply the black floatation device. I have heard of people putting pool noodles up but I don't think that is the same thing Im referring to. Seems like they have both pool noodles and the floatation. Just wondering how you would go about revamping the floatation that comes with the boat, I have to take it off because I want to paint under it to get an even coat with no obvious missed spots.

[DreamBig]

So, In short these boats are great!!!!! You will find them cheap as dirt, because the owner of the company "in my opinion" is a crazy loon. The hull material is tough, but it will fail. I would never buy one new as you can find hardly used one's for at least half off... The seats and transoms are rubbish but easy to make better... I will provide links for that... but as to the problem with them see as follows.. :-)

I will tell you the problem with porta bote. The Owner- Sandy Kaye is the problem.. If he would just make things, and the process how to fix them available to his customers. Like the bladder for example. I am sure that there would be many more positive reviews of this product.. higher resale prices, and more demand for new ones. I have had two conversations with the man in the last two days. Both ended with him chasing other phone calls that were more important than mine. He did say goodbye, so, technically he didn't hang up on me to talk to comcast or his overseas client. It started with a 2006 porta bote that has the dreaded crack in the base of the transom bladder... In his words, I must have abused his boat... He repeated this at least 6 times in a rather short (more or Less that 10 min conversation). That it was impossible for this to happen, and that he has more than 100,000 other boats that have lasted more than 30 years that it hasn't happened to, and so on. I must have or the previous owner must have dropped it off a truck or ran it over and really abused it.... The fact is, That I have really used it, and that is ok. I love the boat. I have two of them. Use them almost everyday. One has a 9.8 hp Tohatsu 4 stroke (14' bote), and the other the one with the problem(ironically) has a 5 hp Honda 4 stroke. The (9.8 is a little much and you have to watch over powering), the 5hp is not enough. Before people go crazy the 9.8 is the same motor as the 8hp, same weight, also.. Just different carb and head porting.. The 9.9 would be a different animal as it is a de-tuned 15hp and much heavier. Anyway, as for a tender it works well and has for years!!!!!
Sandy appears to me to think "his" boat is indestructible. He is also trying to make it a consumable. Which is totally against my moral compass. I don't want to throw things away and buy a new one... I have already invested my time into this boat to repair most of the flaws of his design. UNTIL---- the bladder problem---- My conversation started by calling him, and stating I have two porta-bote's that need new bladders... I would like to know the cost to have him replace the bladder in a 14' porta-bote. He said he doesn't offer that service as it is far too expensive. I asked how much is tooo expensive... He said about $600 and that it was far too expensive to be done to my abused porta-bote. That obviously had been abused and most likely had other problems in the seams that would be hidden and unseen. It would be obviously too expensive to repair.. He said I needed to drive down to home Depot and by some foam type stuff and jam it in the area... he carried on about this, but I am one that like to fix things, not bandaid. I mentioned edurabond tape, and he rambled on about that for a bit. I asked If I could just purchase the bladder from him, and I would replace it myself. His first answer was "NO" it was far to hard for someone like me to do. It took special machines and skills that I "evidently" don't have. Mind you the man know nothing about my capabilities. Shortly after, he somewhat(ly) hung up on me when a voice in the back ground said that comcast was on hold... He didn't ask for my name, phone number, email or any contact information. I felt far too un-important, obviously far too poor, and without a doubt far too ignorant to attempt to repair my own boat.. Sheesh.. I reflected on this conversation, did internet research, about the problem and possible solutions. It all didn't feel right to me. I just want to fix a product that I own, and he is purposefully not allowing this to be done to the engineered specs of his design. Instead he instructed me to use some half- a$$ (ed) way to bandaid the product. So, I called him back today... With the intention to ask for the product specifications for the bladder, and maybe a supplier for where he purchases it.. as to maybe I can purchase it from them as he won't sell it to me. I introduced myself and said that we had talked about a porta bote with a bladder failure yesterday... In a rather nasty way ( as I took it) He replied, yeah, I remember you... This set the tone for a rather heated discussion to follow, that mostly went in circles about his patents, and how the product is made in house in his manufacturing facility ( which mind you is a building approx 50'-70' according to google maps, and is stuffed full of suzuki motors) I ask him directly ( So you extrude this stuff yourself?) He says< "Well I don't.... A Machine about 2 story's tall does " Mind blown at this point.. See I worked for Certainteed extruding plastic's for many years in Michigan. I understand an incredible amount about this type of the stuff... most of which was a pvc blend, but some more complicated stuff was poly ester and poly propylene. I would be intrigued to see his process to mix the (co) polymers, heat them, extrude them, stretch them, roll them, then cool them ( our tanks were over 100 yards long), and store them. In a facility the size he has listed on google. Anyway, Once I had asked, he went on to inform me that they (porta bote) were not in the practice of giving out that material, because it was proprietary and protected by 27 patents. (I already have it on two boat genius) He goes further into the various lawsuits he has against china and others for coping the idea. I took this as implying that I wanted to steal his idea and produce porta- botes on my own... Not my Intent.. I TOLD him (yes caps are implied here) he was out of his mind and I merely wanted to repair what I own.... He THEN implied that because I didn't buy the boat new from his company that I was cheap and didn't deserve to have it fixed, but I could use kevlar sheet as an alternative to his proprietary product. I asked for the details of the Alternative product. He would not elaborate past .150" thick... Said he made them of that for years and they have lasted 30 plus years, but he couldn't remember anything more about it, nor would he tell me because I didn't buy the boat from him...... go figure.. You will see in the pictures the black butyl tape plug over the hole, and the same cracks forming in the transom bladder corners. Also, the failure of the living hinge hull at the front of the bow... It would seem like it is simply weldable if we could get our hands on some of the material... Anyway.. I am kinda glad Sandy drives the resell price of his boats down... :-)

I forgot to mention, that when I asked about my Honda motor clamps damaging the transom, he told me that Honda motors are poor design and don't fit most boats!!!! <----- Hahahaha this guy though...

Have to edit pictures down to size will do that later.

[Hardhead]

I hate to ask, but what is a transom bladder? Sounds like a love/hate relationship-

[hpeer]

Dream Big,

I had a much shorter but similar conversation with Sandy that ended in a similar fashion.

I called him to order a replacement boat. I said I had one and had the bladder leak… and that was about as far as I got. He took over the conversation and got real defensive and accusative and rude. It ended with him banging up because he didn’t have time to argue with me, “I have paying customers to talk to.” Mind you I called to order a new boat.

I did buy a new boat, from his distributor in Canada. Because I vowed to never speak to that AH again, ever!

[Hardhead]

Sounds like a legendary character. Might be the next reality TV sensation.

[DreamBig]

So, In short these boats are great!!!!! You will find them cheap as dirt, because the owner of the company "in my opinion" is a crazy loon. The hull material is tough, but it will fail. I would never buy one new as you can find hardly used one's for at least half off... The seats and transoms are rubbish but easy to make better... I will provide links for that... but as to the problem with them see as follows.. :-)

I will tell you the problem with porta bote. The Owner- Sandy Kaye is the problem.. If he would just make things, and the process how to fix them available to his customers. Like the bladder for example. I am sure that there would be many more positive reviews of this product.. higher resale prices, and more demand for new ones. I have had two conversations with the man in the last two days. Both ended with him chasing other phone calls that were more important than mine. He did say goodbye, so, technically he didn't hang up on me to talk to comcast or his overseas client. It started with a 2006 porta bote that has the dreaded crack in the base of the transom bladder... In his words, I must have abused his boat... He repeated this at least 6 times in a rather short (more or Less that 10 min conversation). That it was impossible for this to happen, and that he has more than 100,000 other boats that have lasted more than 30 years that it hasn't happened to, and so on. I must have or the previous owner must have dropped it off a truck or ran it over and really abused it.... The fact is, That I have really used it, and that is ok. I love the boat. I have two of them. Use them almost everyday. One has a 9.8 hp Tohatsu 4 stroke (14' bote), and the other the one with the problem(ironically) has a 5 hp Honda 4 stroke. The (9.8 is a little much and you have to watch over powering), the 5hp is not enough. Before people go crazy the 9.8 is the same motor as the 8hp, same weight, also.. Just different carb and head porting.. The 9.9 would be a different animal as it is a de-tuned 15hp and much heavier. Anyway, as for a tender it works well and has for years!!!!!
Sandy appears to me to think "his" boat is indestructible. He is also trying to make it a consumable. Which is totally against my moral compass. I don't want to throw things away and buy a new one... I have already invested my time into this boat to repair most of the flaws of his design. UNTIL---- the bladder problem---- My conversation started by calling him, and stating I have two porta-bote's that need new bladders... I would like to know the cost to have him replace the bladder in a 14' porta-bote. He said he doesn't offer that service as it is far too expensive. I asked how much is tooo expensive... He said about $600 and that it was far too expensive to be done to my abused porta-bote. That obviously had been abused and most likely had other problems in the seams that would be hidden and unseen. It would be obviously too expensive to repair.. He said I needed to drive down to home Depot and by some foam type stuff and jam it in the area... he carried on about this, but I am one that like to fix things, not bandaid. I mentioned edurabond tape, and he rambled on about that for a bit. I asked If I could just purchase the bladder from him, and I would replace it myself. His first answer was "NO" it was far to hard for someone like me to do. It took special machines and skills that I "evidently" don't have. Mind you the man know nothing about my capabilities. Shortly after, he somewhat(ly) hung up on me when a voice in the back ground said that comcast was on hold... He didn't ask for my name, phone number, email or any contact information. I felt far too un-important, obviously far too poor, and without a doubt far too ignorant to attempt to repair my own boat.. Sheesh.. I reflected on this conversation, did internet research, about the problem and possible solutions. It all didn't feel right to me. I just want to fix a product that I own, and he is purposefully not allowing this to be done to the engineered specs of his design. Instead he instructed me to use some half- a$$ (ed) way to bandaid the product. So, I called him back today... With the intention to ask for the product specifications for the bladder, and maybe a supplier for where he purchases it.. as to maybe I can purchase it from them as he won't sell it to me. I introduced myself and said that we had talked about a porta bote with a bladder failure yesterday... In a rather nasty way ( as I took it) He replied, yeah, I remember you... This set the tone for a rather heated discussion to follow, that mostly went in circles about his patents, and how the product is made in house in his manufacturing facility ( which mind you is a building approx 50'-70' according to google maps, and is stuffed full of suzuki motors) I ask him directly ( So you extrude this stuff yourself?) He says< "Well I don't.... A Machine about 2 story's tall does " Mind blown at this point.. See I worked for Certainteed extruding plastic's for many years in Michigan. I understand an incredible amount about this type of the stuff... most of which was a pvc blend, but some more complicated stuff was poly ester and poly propylene. I would be intrigued to see his process to mix the (co) polymers, heat them, extrude them, stretch them, roll them, then cool them ( our tanks were over 100 yards long), and store them. In a facility the size he has listed on google. Anyway, Once I had asked, he went on to inform me that they (porta bote) were not in the practice of giving out that material, because it was proprietary and protected by 27 patents. (I already have it on two boat genius) He goes further into the various lawsuits he has against china and others for coping the idea. I took this as implying that I wanted to steal his idea and produce porta- botes on my own... Not my Intent.. I TOLD him (yes caps are implied here) he was out of his mind and I merely wanted to repair what I own.... He THEN implied that because I didn't buy the boat new from his company that I was cheap and didn't deserve to have it fixed, but I could use kevlar sheet as an alternative to his proprietary product. I asked for the details of the Alternative product. He would not elaborate past .150" thick... Said he made them of that for years and they have lasted 30 plus years, but he couldn't remember anything more about it, nor would he tell me because I didn't buy the boat from him...... go figure.. You will see in the pictures the black butyl tape plug over the hole, and the same cracks forming in the transom bladder corners. Also, the failure of the living hinge hull at the front of the bow... It would seem like it is simply weldable if we could get our hands on some of the material... Anyway.. I am kinda glad Sandy drives the resell price of his boats down... :-)

I forgot to mention, that when I asked about my Honda motor clamps damaging the transom, he told me that Honda motors are poor design and don't fit most boats!!!! <----- Hahahaha this guy thoough


link to way to make porta bote seat much better...https://youtu.be/M40athlIT90

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by PozitivePlanez

So a quick question to clarify what Im aiming for. I have decided to paint the inside of me PB but now Im wondering how you would take off and reapply the black floatation device. I have heard of people putting pool noodles up but I don't think that is the same thing Im referring to. Seems like they have both pool noodles and the floatation. Just wondering how you would go about revamping the floatation that comes with the boat, I have to take it off because I want to paint under it to get an even coat with no obvious missed spots.

I would also quote Dream Big but it's mostly a rant for even longer than my long-winded stuff so I'll just say that when my first Bote had a failure at the keel/bladder joint (the typical) which progressed to irremediable, he sent me a prorated new boat.

Elsewhere, in a mailing list, I have seen that if you are nearby you can bring your bote to the factory and they'll cut off a couple inches and install a new transom. I can't imagine the living hinge failure, but if you bought it new and it wasn't over 10 years old, I'm sure he'd do the same as was done for me.

As to how it's done, I'm reasonably sure that he orders monster rolls of the sheets and punches out the various bote panels, or, has his fabricator do that for him, and send them in size-matched batches. He orders enough for a production run, not having a pile of materials available for any eventuality. Because I tried, I know that he has the tubes both extruded and then cut into bote-sized chunks and sent to him; I could not buy the new formulation (same material as the panels) because the extruder makes only the amount needed to match up with the production schedule. He suggested many other possibilities, but none of them held up or didn't mark, the two issues I'd need assurance on before replacing the tubes. Compounding that is the tubes are extruded such that they have flats at the bottoms, making a pointed end to the place which goes in the hinge point (keeping it from popping out, mostly, which a flat cut would not, whether or not you could make a perfectly straight cut through some other tubing).

The noodles are because the older tubes mark hulls horribly; using them doesn't prevent the nose, or the strakes, or the keel tubes from contacting a hull - yours or the boat you're visiting, however, and the marks are hell on wheels to remove. That led to the admiral demanding I sell it, and I damn nearly cried because it's a far superior dinghy than our otherwise-lovely Walker Bay Genesis.

But to your question; the flotation is held on with large rivets. You could use the same if you had access to them. The ones at the bow, for all the tubes, will also eventually fail if used in a marine (as ours is) environment; we replaced them with SS bolts/machine screws and nylock nuts. You could do the same for the flotation security.

"Sex bolts" and "barrel nuts" are threaded posts with a fair head; use those to replace the rivets and you're home free. Here's an example source if you can't find them locally: https://www.fastenright.com/products...ts-barrel-nuts

PS on the reason you asked:
Have you tried that paint anywhere else on the hull? I can't imagine any paint adhering over time to that plastic unless there's some form of primer which will bond with the plastic. And the bottom would be subject to a lot of abrasion if you use it like most folks who have one that I know of...

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by PozitivePlanez

So a quick question to clarify what Im aiming for. I have decided to paint the inside of me PB but now Im wondering how you would take off and reapply the black floatation device. I have heard of people putting pool noodles up but I don't think that is the same thing Im referring to. Seems like they have both pool noodles and the floatation. Just wondering how you would go about revamping the floatation that comes with the boat, I have to take it off because I want to paint under it to get an even coat with no obvious missed spots.

Google flexible foam flotation

https://bramportsupply.com/products/...8aAmD8EALw_wcB

You could try to replace the original rivets in kind. But there are other ways of mechanically fixing the foam. Simple bolt and washer with a cap nut would do.

I am interested in how you succeed with the paint job. Frankly I expect failure and disappointment, but I wish you success.

And just to be clear, I am a big fan of Porta Boats. We use ours heavily, about the only thing original remaining is the hull and flotation.. Seats, transom, oar locks, oars have all been replaced. I likely will replace the flotation because of deterioration and to add buoyancy.

[hpeer]

I suspect what Sandy is ip to is changing the demographic of the typical PB owner, or adjusting to his demographic.

While some of us love them PB’s have not seen wide adaption by the cruiser market. From what I see in a PB FB page the typical owner is an occasional user on some small inland lake.

I believe the hp rating, governed by some rather arbitrary rules, limits the plate hp. I can see why he would be hesitant to recommend bigger motors even though he did in the past. He has a lot of liability. And if he has to limit them to a wimp ass motor then the weak ass folding transom makes some sense. It is still poorly designed and implemented but probably adequate for years of occasional lake use with a 2hp.

As cruisers we want and need more robust performance. There probably is not enough market for Sandy to make money having a separate robust model. That is why you have guys like me who modify the base design to get full advantage of the wonderful hull. Frankly I would he happy if Sandy would sell a bald hull with nothing but flotation and seat supports with optional seats. I think the newest seats are pretty good, a design improvement.

Yet the problem remains, Sandy comes across as cantankerous and suspicious, I found him difficult, nay impossible, to deal with.

But I still bought a boat to get the hull. The starboard folding transom is now spare stock for other projects.

[DreamBig]

Transom bladder is the thin sheet of plastic at the aft most of the boat. When you remove the transom... The part the motor would mount on, it is what is left in the boat.. Evidently, it is proprietary, and was originally designed by Nasa.... We technically probably shouldn't own it, and might get sued for Patent infringement just for having one... Even if you did purchase it from Sandy himself.. Furthermore, sorry for the rant, but that guy is a special case... I really think he could take over the cruiser market with just a few small adaptations. Front step that mounts to secondary gourmets up front. automatic bilge setup, add on Hypalon tubes. Replacement bladders so we can have them on board when is all goes south in the Seychelles or something... Anyway.. His business could be soo much better, and he could sell so many more items... Without regressing back to the throw the piece of junk away and buy a new one.. sad really. Long winded yes, but you did read it.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by DreamBig

Transom bladder is the thin sheet of plastic at the aft most of the boat. When you remove the transom... The part the motor would mount on, it is what is left in the boat.. Evidently, it is proprietary, and was originally designed by Nasa.... We technically probably shouldn't own it, and might get sued for Patent infringement just for having one... Even if you did purchase it from Sandy himself.. Furthermore, sorry for the rant, but that guy is a special case... I really think he could take over the cruiser market with just a few small adaptations. Front step that mounts to secondary gourmets up front. automatic bilge setup, add on Hypalon tubes. Replacement bladders so we can have them on board when is all goes south in the Seychelles or something... Anyway.. His business could be soo much better, and he could sell so many more items... Without regressing back to the throw the piece of junk away and buy a new one.. sad really. Long winded yes, but you did read it.

Oy.

Add on bladders would eliminate the marking the tubes do for the top, but not for the strakes or keel at the nose. Besides, it's window dressing; the Bote is just fine in displacement; we've done a circumnavigation of Little Farmers Cay in the Bahamas with 4 hefty adults (aggregate over 700# - but also plus 85# engine and 30+# of fuel) without issue.

Having replacement bladders begs the question of attachment and sealing. If you can adequately seal it, you also can repair the typical keel tear area. We're very fond of our EternaBond 4' strip, of which we have all but a few inches left, and loan it out to other PB owners with the problem.

If it weren't for the marks from the tubes, I'd still have mine.

As to any NASA patent, those are publicly held; TempurPedic foam type stuff was developed for the astronauts, along with dozens of other freely available inventions made necessary for space travel - so, don't worry

[tpkas]

How about winching the PB on davits? Have many cruisers done this? How did they do it and how successful was it?

Regards,

Brian