Outboards are incredibly polluting - WOW

[Baby tug]

Originally Posted by StuM

It's nice that you are showing concern about what other do.

Personally, I could'nt care less if anybody uses an outboard for their tender

I couldn’t care less about this, neither their goes caring about other people just making a harmless comment , maybe you have something better to do than comment on my communication skills , evidently have lots of time on your hands 12,000 posts It never fails there’s always one

[paralog]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

Thanks for posting this. The impact of livestock is the single greatest factor for climate change, and fresh water consumption/pollution. The numbers are staggering.
We could also solve human hunger overnight and reduce deforestation if humans ate plants instead of animal products.

Total rubbish, obviously coming from a vegan.

[JPA Cate]

Hello, Baby tug. Did it not occur to you that 12,000 posts might simply mean joining CF quite a while back, and liking it here?

I know nobody likes having their spelling errors and punctuation pointed out, but please just shine it on, or report the post (triangle on the lower left of posts).

People tend to be less polite on the internet than face to face, for sure. As a moderator here, I prefer it when people follow the rules they agreed to when they joined, posting respectfully.

Ann

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

"Ew gross" is not a scientific way to look at it at all.

Anyone who wants to have a positive impact on the planet will have the greatest effect with two things:

1. Give up meat and dairy. Single biggest thing you can do not only for climate change, but also fresh water and land use. Eating meat is worse than any other thing we do to the planet.

2. Support carbon-free nuclear power against irrational superstitious radiophobes, and other forms of renewable energy, especially wind and solar. Agitate against coal power which is incredibly destructive and deadly.

Hear hear x 1000 .... I haven't been here for a while and forgot how good your posts always were, dockhead

[Sojourner]

I really don't know where y'all are sailing that you can row a dink most days, or if everyone is by themselves and so doesn't need a bigger tender, or much provisions to haul around. The wind here in the cyclades/dodecanese, every bloody day this week (and last, and next) is over 25 knots. Rowing 3 people around in that? You better be packing a ditch bag every time with some food cause you'll end up on the next island.

There are lots of problems with everything except consuming less of everything--meat, oil, gas, square feet of your house, single use items, plastic packaging, plane travel, any travel (even by sail, since even by the wind you have to renew things on that big plastic machine all the time that are made with energy and nonrenewable resources). Eat less, eat lower on the food chain, eat food made closer to where you are. Move less, ride a bike, walk--it's healthy. Use less, buy fewer new things, buy used things, refurbish things, keep them around longer, don't worry about the latest updates. Consume less.

And most importantly, don't have children... NOTHING is worse for the environment than having a herd of kids. Sorry not sorry.

Back to the outboard issue, I'd say the most reasonable thing for most of us (who choose not to settle on a small piece of land and not move around so much) would be a small, clean, well-maintained 4-stroke

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

Where exactly? Why don't you sail to the town to check in if its 5 miles away?

Kalimantan - Indonesia (By the way no useable sunshine for 10 days).

Bitung, Lembeh - Indonesia
Palawan - Philippines

Cocos Keeling - Australia

Faro - Portugal


To mention a few.

[GordMay]

Free2Sail is not wrong [#187], this time.

[sailorboy1]

I read page 1 of the the thread and then page 10. I am impressed some stuff from page 1 is still in the debate. Other than that I am right at the WOW stage of who and what in the thread I am thinking is crazy. But I will admit even the crazy here has a degree of right.

Back to post #1. I know a cruiser couple with an electric dinghy motor. They manage to get around pretty good so it is possible I will admit. I don't know where all the pollution from the 4-stroke is coming from because my outboard doesn't put any oil in the water.

This is (suppose) to be a cruising forum and it is mostly sailors. We already have a pretty small pollution footprint and are "green" compared to most. I am sure we aren't as "green" as most of us believe, just like most green things aren't as green as people believe once everything is considered, but in the big picture we are on the green end of things.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

This is (suppose) to be a cruising forum and it is mostly sailors. We already have a pretty small pollution footprint and are "green" compared to most. I am sure we aren't as "green" as most of us believe, just like most green things aren't as green as people believe once everything is considered, but in the big picture we are on the green end of things.

I think that's called "making a virtue of a necessity", but still it's essentially true that cruisers and liveaboards are more frugal and efficient afloat, resulting in a smaller footprint. Most also had a life and career on land prior to going aboard, and of course, we all can vote.

Which leads to the paradox of some cruisers with their green bona fides sneering at others' environmental concerns and efforts to transition to sustainable energy, and still supporting policies that are shortsighted, wasteful and polluting.


Re outboards: if we legislate against the sale of new 2-stroke outboards they will slowly disappear. Outboards that are used frequently and for long periods will soon wear out, and outboards that are only used infrequently or briefly are by definition polluting less.

And I'm for banning ANY leafblowers - 2-stroke, electric, whatever. Hate those noisy things. Use a rake or a broom.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

And I'm for banning ANY leafblowers - 2-stroke, electric, whatever. Hate those noisy things. Use a rake or a broom.

I call the sound of the those "The song of Florida" and wonder how boats anchored in places with houses around them can have the gall to say the Honda on the boat 200' away is making too much noise.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I call the sound of the those "The song of Florida" and wonder how boats anchored in places with houses around them can have the gall to say the Honda on the boat 200' away is making too much noise.

No kidding.

[Rumrace]

Next debate

Which pollutes more mermaid or a unicorn?

Start googling now!

[Free2Sail]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Free2Sail is not wrong [#187], this time.

This reminds me, I was wrong to mischaracterize your assessment of Jared Diamond, because I missed your "facile alternative viewpoint" comment. My bad.He's still wrong in GG&S, but an exegesis of why is way off-topic here.
Returning to the topic of polluting outboards, would any of you e-outboard proponents like to swap one for a 64cc Seagull, straight-up? It's loud and proud and leaves a stain, but it runs like a champ and punches above its rated HP. You do have to smother it to make it stop.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Free2Sail

a 64cc Seagull, straight-up? It's loud and proud and leaves a stain, but it runs like a champ and punches above its rated HP. You do have to smother it to make it stop.

Ah those were days, attached to a little clinker dinghy that was always towed and never stowed, with a little gaff sail for excursions and a trusty Seagull to return you safely aboard at the end of the day after a trip to the pub.



I totally agree that ic engines pollute. But ic outboards are often the most appropriate technology. Quite honestly outboards are a drop in the ocean when compared to 1.446 BILLION motor vehicles (19% in the US) and annual sales increasing by nearly 3 million year on year. 1.1 million Jetskis in the US alone. It doesn't make outboards right but there are bigger fish to fry. Like where is all the lithium and if everyone drove e-vehicles most city grids be they powered by coal, gas, nuclear or re-newables would melt down.



The biggest flaw in this debate with regards to the adoption of e-outboads apart from berating ice is the e-brigade appear to sail exclusively in bright sunny places or close to land with high end green infrastructure.


Unfortunately, the world just ain't like that. solar power does not work in some places. When someone invents cloud power or rain power there maybe a case for e-outboards. Ignoring the immediate duration and output power limitations the real issue is CHARGING. Living off grid in cold dark places or boating in Ireland will for the foreseeable future involve using fossil fuel.

[NPCampbell]

I used to have a gas powered weed-eater, edger, mower, blower and chain saw. I now have the cordless equivalents of all of these. I swapped to cordless not due to eco reasons or a government mandate but because the electric tools are now some combination of cheaper, smarter, stronger, better, faster, lighter and more convenient than gas tools.

However, I don't believe we are there yet with dinghy outboards. If you want an equivalent electric outboard, you have to be able to live with the initial expense, weight, poor range, and long charging times. This will be viable for some but not for most. Batteries are still the problem. With a little time and market pressure we'll get there.