Outboards are incredibly polluting - WOW

[guyrj33]

Originally Posted by myocean

See here how gasoline outboards pollute the pristine waters of your anchorage.

After 15 minutes of operation you see in these tanks the pollution from

a 2-stroke on the left,

a 4-stroke on the right and

an electric outboard in the middle.

I knew they are dirty but this is far worse than expected.
Don't buy these shitty things anymore if there is an alternative.
See a little video here.

Does the OP have any financial interest in this electric outboard?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

You get the same resources supporting more people.

Exactly...more people, not less...and realistically, someone will take the place of the people you "off'd", so no real reduction in consumption.

Thank you for the example of how the eco-movement rarely looks at the big picture but wants the flashy headline (in this case, attacks on those "evil rich" people).

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Exactly...more people not less...and realistically, someone will take the place of the people you "off'd", so no real reduction in consumption.

So you hate people? How is it not good if the same set of resources supports more people?

[two-rocks]

My 15hp 2-stroke with a thermostat - running the same speed as the tiny outboard makes less pollution. We only use a few gallons a year of fuel - and biodegradable 2-stroke oil (but , yes they pollute a great amount).

Our house is solar and electric, as is our car, and most of our boat cooking and power needs are solar. Diesel auxiliary is still needed - in our use case anyway.

Start with the big fish.

I use my 2-stroke to get meat - small fish.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

So you hate people? How is it not good if the same set of resources supports more people?

Way to go off course. You are the one suggesting the solution is to "off" the rich.

How exactly are you supporting more people with the same resources by getting rid of the the current wealthy...who will simply be replaced by a new crop of wealthy (they might be relabeled as socialist political leaders but amounts to the same thing...)

[Free2Sail]

This whole discussion has devolved into posturing by smug Westerners with first-world problems ("which outboard to buy for my yacht's tender to feel most morally superior?"). Sure, we should all go vegan and remove our sailboat's engine to make a point, too.

And all started by a post that should've been in the classified/vendor section because it was clearly a disguised ad for epropulsion. When electric outboards become super reliable, cost closer to $1K instead of $3-5K, have more than a 5-mile range in adverse real-world conditions, and don't take 10 hours to recharge, you will not have to use "save the world" arguments to sell them. Folks will be lining up to buy e-outboards when they are superior to gas outboards. I'll buy one - I don't love pull-starting, messing with the carb, and the noise.

[Free2Sail]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Pet peeve: When I was in grade school, the earth's population was around 4 billion. Currently it's around 8 billion. All over around 40yrs.

So a long lived extremely intelligent (if highly unethical) individual never grasped that the solution would only help for the tiniest blip of time on a cosmic scale.

That's before considering the burst of growth likely to follow (look at forests in the first couple years after a fire...it's an explosion of growth).

Population control is ultimately the only solution to our ecological problems but drastic measures are likely to create more problems than they solve.

People who care about such first-world problems are already very good at controlling their population numbers. Look at the (sub-replacement) fertility rates in the highly-developed countries.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Free2Sail

This whole discussion has devolved into posturing by smug Westerners with first-world problems ("which outboard to buy for my yacht's tender to feel most morally superior?"). Sure, we should all go vegan and remove our sailboat's engine to make a point, too.

And all started by a post that should've been in the classified/vendor section because it was clearly a disguised ad for epropulsion. When electric outboards become super reliable, cost closer to $1K instead of $3-5K, have more than a 5-mile range in adverse real-world conditions, and don't take 10 hours to recharge, you will not have to use "save the world" arguments to sell them. Folks will be lining up to buy e-outboards when they are superior to gas outboards. I'll buy one - I don't love pull-starting, messing with the carb, and the noise.

It IS about auxiliary equipment and dinghys.
Not a sales forum.
It only that we have some here that want to get political or diverge in the topic because they think their comments are more interesting and don't care about the real topic!
Pollution outboards.
Please stay on the subject.
BYD

[Miguelso]

On a side note, I thought the 4 stroke would be way cleaner than the 2 stroke. But one seems to be a 5hp and the other a 3hp, so we are not comparing apples to apples.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

It IS about auxiliary equipment and dinghys.
Not a sales forum.
It only that we have some here that want to get political or diverge in the topic because they think their comments are more interesting and don't care about the real topic!
Pollution outboards.
Please stay on the subject.
BYD

In fairness, there was not that much to learn from the OP. We all know that 2-stroke engines are simple, cheap, and dirty. And that old gas or diesel engines are dirtier than new engines. And that electric engines are not yet affordable or practical for most cruisers.

And it goes downhill from there...

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

In fairness, there was not that much to learn from the OP. We all know that 2-stroke engines are simple, cheap, and dirty. And that old gas or diesel engines are dirtier than new engines. And that electric engines are not yet affordable or practical for most cruisers.

And it goes downhill from there...

Its about small outboards.
Electric propulsion goes hand in hand with this.
Much better choice than either 2 or 4 stroke.
Not about marine diesels, big outboards, or population density.
This applies and isn't really expensive.
Good idea!
BYD

[Free2Sail]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

It IS about auxiliary equipment and dinghys.
Not a sales forum.
It only that we have some here that want to get political or diverge in the topic because they think their comments are more interesting and don't care about the real topic!
Pollution outboards.
Please stay on the subject.
BYD

I did stay on the subject, gas vs e-outboards. However, 10 pages of posts shows this discussion, political or not, is interesting to folks. I did learn something interesting from the more scientifically oriented posts. However, most of us already know that e-outboards are not yet economically or otherwise viable for many cruising uses. Once the battery storage and recharging problems are solved, sure, I'll buy a clean and quiet e-outboard for a reasonable price.

[Free2Sail]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Changing diet, on the other hand, is cost free.

But not effort-free or desirable, or we'd all already be 110lb raw vegans.

Meat/fish are more nutritious than plants, which is why we could evolve oversized brains with which to agonize over eating meat.

We also don't have the GI systems to process large quantities of plant matter that would be needed, particularly uncooked plant matter.

Callahan of the "Alone" fame survived for nearly 3 months at sea in a life raft because he caught and ate 12 large fish (IIRC) and some mollusks, not because he ate buckets of seaweed.

Now, if he'd only had an electric outboard on his life raft...

Originally Posted by Dockhead

My apartment in Helsinki, like 98% of the housing units in the capital, is heated with waste heat from a biomass CHP plant. The Finnish power grid is already 90% carbon-free, and the Finns are actively building out wind and nuclear. They are planning Small Modular Reactors in the three major cities specifically designed as CHP plants to provide heat to the existing district heating systems.

Clearly, the solution is to make everyone in the world a Finn.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Free2Sail

Clearly, the solution is to make everyone in the world a Finn.

Finland isn't that big, so I don't think this would work out very well. But we can certainly adopt some of their better ideas. They have a pretty good track record.

[Rumrace]

A night time when a city shuts down the electricity does not. It goes to ground.
In Toronto the night time waste is sent to a pump station down Muggs channel on Toronto islands. The pump station sends compressed air to two tanks under the lake which run dynamos on land. The dynamos are being mistaken for water front art as intended. Toronto has in the area of 55,000 housing starts a year and is heading past 4 million and heading for 6.
The night time recovery system a world First will allow the city to grow to 6 million without increasing consumption. The city is currently 95% renewable energy.