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Old 18-06-2019, 17:58   #46
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Re: Land Dinghies -- Electric Bike?

"Just the other day I did 6km round trip with a 13kg gas cylinder. I couldn't have done that on my bike."

One can transport some pretty amazing loads on a push bike. My best effort was a sheet of 8' x 4' x 1/2" (2400 x 1200 x 12 mm) plywood using one of those fold up trolleys, 4 G clamps and a loop cut from plywood. It went well but I had to keep the speed down to keep the back end from flying and shearing out to the side.
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Old 28-06-2019, 15:44   #47
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Re: Land Dinghies -- Electric Bike?

Everything is a compromise. Maximum portability good range, speed and ability to handle roads that aren't perfect. https://youtu.be/WmRfOTUpegsClick image for larger version

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Old 28-06-2019, 16:04   #48
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Re: Land Dinghies -- Electric Bike?

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Originally Posted by Fuss View Post
Another thought....
Why would anyone these days buy a bike with a chain when a silent oil free gates belt can be used!

A single speed folding with gates belt and electric motor would be a very good boat bike...maybe not perfect for all conditions but close enough.
So true.

Chains and derailleurs are utterly useless on a boat.

We aren't even interested in bike a now. Electric scooters are much easier to handle and I prefer standing than the archaic posture of a bike.
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Old 28-06-2019, 16:18   #49
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Re: Land Dinghies -- Electric Bike?

A folding electric bike with fat tires and ~30 mile range:
https://lectricebikes.com

But 60 pounds and bulky. I'm curious how people store bikes on multihulls other than on deck. I suppose some can slide them in to the foredeck lockers with removing wheels and bars, but I'm guessing electric bikes make this a challenge or even impossible.
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Old 28-06-2019, 16:21   #50
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Re: Land Dinghies -- Electric Bike?

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So true.

Chains and derailleurs are utterly useless on a boat.

We aren't even interested in bike a now. Electric scooters are much easier to handle and I prefer standing than the archaic posture of a bike.
Like everything, of course they are if people are incapable of maintaining them, i've been carting them around for 30 years now with no more problems than if they where land based.....at the moment i carry 2 full sized bikes (fat bike & paratrooper) both with chains and derailleurs, 3 & 4 years old respectively, and both as good as the day i bought them....easy to maintain.....and can do some serious back country exploring with both, which i wouldn't be doing on your scooter
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Old 29-06-2019, 01:40   #51
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Re: Land Dinghies -- Electric Bike?

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Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
So true.

Chains and derailleurs are utterly useless on a boat.

We aren't even interested in bike a now. Electric scooters are much easier to handle and I prefer standing than the archaic posture of a bike.

Have you tried an electric scooter?


Rental ones are now scattered all over Nordic cities; unlock with your phone, ride whereever you want to, dump it wherever, and carry on your way. I've been using them on business trips. It's a neat concept -- enhanced pedestrianism --but they are horrible to ride compared to a bike. Very unstable -- almost no gyroscopic effect from the tiny wheels -- deal very badly with even the slightest irregularity in the road. A small pothole, handled with ease by a bike, can send you right over the handlebars.



I don't think they can be compared to bikes. Better compare to going by foot.


I have definitely rejected the electric bike idea for the boat, myself. The weight is the deal breaker. My present bike could be improved for boat use by rebuilding it with a belt drive and Rohloff hub, eliminating the derailleur, albeit at enormous cost. The downside though is that it is still relatively bulky and has an awkward folding system.


Then there is the Brompton, with the superior folding mechanism and much less bulk, but far worse as a bike. For boat use that could be ok, but I hate to lose the long-leggedness of a proper bike like the Dahon.
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Old 29-06-2019, 01:43   #52
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Re: Land Dinghies -- Electric Bike?

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Originally Posted by IslandHopper View Post
Like everything, of course they are if people are incapable of maintaining them, i've been carting them around for 30 years now with no more problems than if they where land based.....at the moment i carry 2 full sized bikes (fat bike & paratrooper) both with chains and derailleurs, 3 & 4 years old respectively, and both as good as the day i bought them....easy to maintain.....and can do some serious back country exploring with both, which i wouldn't be doing on your scooter

I'm all with you on the advantages of real bikes -- land dinghies, as it were. But where in the world do you keep two full sized bikes???




I don't have any issue maintaining derailleurs -- the problem is bending them in storage, plus getting chain grease on everything. My bike folds up and goes in a bag, and the bag goes into the laz. But my laz is densely packed with all kinds of stuff including spare sails, because it's almost the only deck storage I have , so it all gets jammed together pretty well, and that plays hell with the derailleur
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Old 29-06-2019, 02:26   #53
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Re: Land Dinghies -- Electric Bike?

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I'm all with you on the advantages of real bikes -- land dinghies, as it were. But where in the world do you keep two full sized bikes???



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Old 29-06-2019, 03:21   #54
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Re: Land Dinghies -- Electric Bike?

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I'm all with you on the advantages of real bikes -- land dinghies, as it were. But where in the world do you keep two full sized bikes???
Have you seen Ritchey Break-Away frames? They do a carbon version too.
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Old 29-06-2019, 04:32   #55
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Re: Land Dinghies -- Electric Bike?

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Have you seen Ritchey Break-Away frames? They do a carbon version too.

I had not; hot tip. I think this paradigm -- take the bike apart, even if it takes a little time, but get it into a really stowable well protected package.


For a cruiser, the well-protected package is more important than folding time. The use case is different from land users of folding bikes.


I don't really need a full sized bike, though. I am extremely pleased with my 20" Dahon in terms of riding qualities. 20" is good and I absolutely love the full suspension. But I hate the way it folds. It folds into a very awkward shape, which leaves vulnerable bits sticking out, and hard and awkward to handle. The greasy chain and the vulnerable derailleur is the worst of it.



I'd love a 20" full suspension bike with a Rohloff which could be disassembled and fit into a suitcase like that Ritchey. I'd pay good money for something like that.
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Old 29-06-2019, 04:44   #56
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Re: Land Dinghies -- Electric Bike?

Here's another take-apart bike:


Take apart bikes
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Old 29-06-2019, 04:58   #57
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Re: Land Dinghies -- Electric Bike?

The Bike Friday hard case looks really good:


https://www.bikefriday.com/folding-b...a-folding-bike


And maybe that's a decent compromise. But the bike itself is much less appealing -- no suspension (key to good ride and handling of small wheel bikes, as Alex Moulton figured out in the 60's), no hub gearing


But maybe worth that compromise. That storage would be perfect.




And here is a Bike Friday with Rohloff and belt drive:


https://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.com/...elt-drive.html


I think I just chose a Christmas present for myself
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Old 29-06-2019, 07:43   #58
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Re: Land Dinghies -- Electric Bike?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I'm all with you on the advantages of real bikes -- land dinghies, as it were. But where in the world do you keep two full sized bikes???




I don't have any issue maintaining derailleurs -- the problem is bending them in storage, plus getting chain grease on everything. My bike folds up and goes in a bag, and the bag goes into the laz. But my laz is densely packed with all kinds of stuff including spare sails, because it's almost the only deck storage I have , so it all gets jammed together pretty well, and that plays hell with the derailleur
As gonesail points out the Paratrooper folds up (into a bag) and lives on the FWD bulkhead in the engine compartment, the fatbike i have to pull down though with the frame/handlebars/seat usually living under the aft double bed and the wheels in the V-Berth, It only takes about 15 mins to disassemble or re-assemble the FB.....

When alongside i pretty much leave both of them ready to use, if out at anchor i usually only take the Paratrooper ashore in the rib, although a have taken the FB when i want do that extra bit of offroading.....
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Old 29-06-2019, 14:09   #59
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Re: Land Dinghies -- Electric Bike?

Bought a used folding bike to get around Alameda prepping for delivering the 'new to me' Sabre 28 for the trip to SoCal. Unfortunately my trusty Bike Friday was down south and too expensive to ship up to NorCal.

Had no convenient place to stow the bike below so strapped it down on the foredeck. Unfortunately got in some challenging weather leaving SF and had to duck into Monterey to do some repairs. Unloaded the bike and it was a mess, one day at sea and it had gotten rusty, the cables all froze up, and the deck had rust stains all over. NEVER EVER ATTEMPT A PASSAGE WITH A BIKE STORED ON DECK whether it's electric, titanium, aluminum, carbon or steel.

The frame rust wasn't an issue with using the bike but the non Ferrous parts that froze up. The other parts were the big problem that took nearly half a day of fiddling to free up and get functioning so I could ride the bike.

As I said, it was a used POS cheap folding bike but it sure made me appreciate my Bike Friday. My trusty Bike Friday, even though it has a steel frame, has not been a problem as it travels in its suitcase where it's protected from the elements. Even the time or two that I left the suitcase on the deck it's come through fine. Stowing the unfolded bike topside for weeks at a time at anchor or at a dock also hasn't been a problem.

Now if I could just find a way to charge the batteries for an electrified Bike Friday, it might be a perfect world.

FWIW, my Bike Friday is the New World Tourist (NWT) model. It's got a 9 speed derailleur cassette and a 3 speed geared hub. Equipped with racks and panniers it can carry a ton of stuff. The suitcase trailer comes in handy for hauling bulky not too heavy items. It folds into a plastic suitcase in about 15 minutes or into a canvas bag in 5 minutes. Use the bag for transporting the bike in the dinghy or in a car. Weight is a big issue with any bike for muscling it on and off the boat. At 74 it's not as easy as it used to be to lift 30 pounds above shoulder height to clear the life lines when off and on loading the bike.

Electrifying the bike is something I'm considering but it's a bit pricey. BF's engineering has something to be considered as the batteries are air line transportable which may not be the case with other electrics. The batteries are also easily detached making it way easier for hefting the bike. Would have to give up the 3 speed hub but the electric boost would compensate. Ride mostly in the highest gear as it is so a little push from the electric should make up for losing the gearing. Almost never use the low hub gear though don't have any challenging hills for the 6 mile ride from Condo to the boat.
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Old 29-06-2019, 14:31   #60
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Re: Land Dinghies -- Electric Bike?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Bought a used folding bike to get around Alameda prepping for delivering the 'new to me' Sabre 28 for the trip to SoCal. Unfortunately my trusty Bike Friday was down south and too expensive to ship up to NorCal.

Had no convenient place to stow the bike below so strapped it down on the foredeck. Unfortunately got in some challenging weather leaving SF and had to duck into Monterey to do some repairs. Unloaded the bike and it was a mess, one day at sea and it had gotten rusty, the cables all froze up, and the deck had rust stains all over. NEVER EVER ATTEMPT A PASSAGE WITH A BIKE STORED ON DECK whether it's electric, titanium, aluminum, carbon or steel.

The frame rust wasn't an issue with using the bike but the non Ferrous parts that froze up. The other parts were the big problem that took nearly half a day of fiddling to free up and get functioning so I could ride the bike.

As I said, it was a used POS cheap folding bike but it sure made me appreciate my Bike Friday. My trusty Bike Friday, even though it has a steel frame, has not been a problem as it travels in its suitcase where it's protected from the elements. Even the time or two that I left the suitcase on the deck it's come through fine. Stowing the unfolded bike topside for weeks at a time at anchor or at a dock also hasn't been a problem.

Now if I could just find a way to charge the batteries for an electrified Bike Friday, it might be a perfect word.

FWIW, my Bike Friday is the New World Tourist (NWT) model. It's got a 9 speed derailleur cassette and a 3 speed geared hub. Equipped with racks and panniers it can carry a ton of stuff. The suitcase trailer comes in handy for hauling bulky not too heavy items. It folds into a plastic suitcase in about 15 minutes or into a canvas bag in 5 minutes. Use the bag for transporting the bike in the dinghy or in a car. Weight is a big issue with any bike for muscling it on and off the boat. At 74 it's not as easy as it used to be lift 30 pounds above shoulder height to clear the life lines when off and on loading the bike.

Electrifying the bike is something I'm considering but it's a bit pricey but BF's engineering has something to be considered. The batteries are air line transportable which may not be the case with other electrics. The batteries are also easily detached making it way easier for hefting the bike.

Thanks; lots of good information.


I've already ruled out electric due to the weight. You've got a bunch of years on me, but with my boat's freeboard, swinging the non-electric bike over the lifelines is already quite enough challenge, thanks very much.



I'll hate to give up the full suspension of the Jet Stream, but I think BF is going to be it for me. The bike I posted about above cost more than $5000 to build, but BF will build a New World Tourist with Rohloff and belt drive for $4300, and around $3000 with the Alfine 11 speed hub and belt drive. That seems perfectly reasonable. The fold is vastly superior to the Jetstream and in the hard case it will be ideally protected when stowed on board.


I'll keep the Jetstream for land use. I thought about buying a full sized bike for land -- I'm cycling every day in land life these days. But I realized that the Jetstream leaves nothing to be desired in terms of riding, and it is SO convenient to fold it up and throw it in a closet at home instead of dragging it down to the bike room in the cellar or lock it to a rack. Also you are allowed here to carry a bike on trams and buses IF it folds -- no full size bikes allowed. Also sometimes when I rent a car, I ride the bike to pick it up, and just fold it and throw it in the trunk. Can't do any of that with a full sized.
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