Ideal Boat Bike?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by cj88

If you have the money then the Rohloff is king all-day long. If you're on a budget and unless you need the gears, the 3-speed internal gear hubs are stronger. The Enviolo (formerly Nuvinci) is also worth a look at.

I don’t think so, I’d like to try a Nuvinci, the idea of a CVT intrigues me, assuming the ratio is wide enough, it would be better than a derailleur.
I wonder though about its efficiency, a thin toothed belt ought to I believe be slightly more efficient than a chain, and certainly be lighter and I’d expect at least the chainwheel to be composite.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I've always liked Montagues, but they are kind of huge for keeping on a boat, aren't they?

Best fold up bike I've owned. And mine fits through a 12.5" x 31.5" aft lazarette hatch opening on my furniture 4, so I suspect you will have more than plenty of room.

The trick is to remove the front tire (quick release wheel and forward brakes), lower the seat (quick release), and lower the handlebars (quick release). open the single quick release to fold the bike in half and you're set. I keep my carrier and saddlebags on all the time. You can also get folding pedals. I also think it is pretty darn light for a full-size bike.

Tomorrow I'll take some photos of it folded and some measurements, and post them.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by OldMan

I hope you have better luck with Shimano internal gear hub than I have. Bought (2) eight speed, one had snapping/clicking sound brand new, replaced under warranty, still makes too much noise IMO. The other hub is now having trouble locking into 5th gear, ~800 miles on it. These are not DIY repairable. My Dahon 8 speed derailleurs with chain have been solid, and I can repair if needed. Belt drive is cool, but not worth the finicky internal gear hubs, waxed chain is much better than grease. YMMV

Originally Posted by cj88

If you have the money then the Rohloff is king all-day long. If you're on a budget and unless you need the gears, the 3-speed internal gear hubs are stronger. The Enviolo (formerly Nuvinci) is also worth a look at.

I had heard about these problems with the Alfines, but haven't they been solved by now?


Rohloff is fabulous of course, but besides the cost, don't forget the weight! They are massive at nearly 2kg.


I've had great luck with the SRAM Dual Drive, which combines 9 speed derailleur gears with a 3 speed hub. The hub is solid and smooth and has been trouble-free over many thousands of miles. It is direct drive so almost frictionless in the middle gear, which is how you use it 90% of the time, dropping to low range for steep hills or "overdrive" going downhill. It's actually a great drive system, except for the vulnernability of the derailleur in boat bike service. It sticks out and you will bend it from time to time no matter how careful you are. For city bike service I don't think it gives up much to the Rohloff.

[Capn Jimbo]

Originally Posted by toolbar

Is there a dealer for Zizzos the EU? Their website said that they don't ship outside of the USA. Funny that it's called Euromini, but I don't seem able to source it over here.

Paul

Sorry Paul... being here in Florida I really don't know. However I do know their customer service department which is excellent and very responsive. I think they are California based - suggest you give them a call as I'm sure this question has come up before.

Oh...for those who like the idea of dry lubed chains, many of the tourers I rode with used a common teflon based spray, which dries in about 1/2 hour and then stays dry. Even so all drives will pick up dust, dire, mud etc. Fortunately you can buy an inexpensive chain cleaner that works with chain on the bike (just backpedal the chain through). A sprocket brush does it's job once in a while. And a daily wipe of at least the chain is quick and easy and prevents the normal build up.

These are bikes, not rockets lol. Most average sailors are not into the mega expensive models that will be wet, thrown around, stolen, and stored. For me it's form and function - value for performance. A good design will last a long time, Shimano components are good and easily replaced. Marinized is important. Buy what you want but I have found the Zizzo top of line Liberte superb.

After touring over 10,000 miles in the last few years on my customized 27" full size, I have worn out components, damaged rims the whole deal. I am a VERY critical buyer. If money is no object, have at it. If value is the object, I could have done no better. It works, it works well, it's a great design in every way, good components, special touring tires, alum/ss, quick release wheels, bag, good Shimano components, and probably the lightest, best folding design I looked at. At half price at $399 now I urge you to consider it.

A word about suspensions - I absolutely reject them as I like a tight and responsive, non-flexing , light and fast design. Hint: your bent arms and knees are your suspension. Springed seats? You're not supposed to be sitting when you go over a bump, which can cause loss of control. But it's your arse, and your moola.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by OldMan

I hope you have better luck with Shimano internal gear hub than I have. Bought (2) eight speed, one had snapping/clicking sound brand new, replaced under warranty, still makes too much noise IMO. The other hub is now having trouble locking into 5th gear, ~800 miles on it. These are not DIY repairable.

Mine is a Sturmey-Archer, 8 spd. I mostly use 2nd and 5th, very occasionally 1st uphill. It's always been a bit iffy with gear selection, but I've assumed that's probably more about the cable/shifter than the hub.

-Chris

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by Capn Jimbo

Oh...for those who like the idea of dry lubed chains, many of the tourers I rode with used a common teflon based spray, which dries in about 1/2 hour and then stays dry. Even so all drives will pick up dust, dire, mud etc. Fortunately you can buy an inexpensive chain cleaner that works with chain on the bike (just backpedal the chain through). A sprocket brush does it's job once in a while. And a daily wipe of at least the chain is quick and easy and prevents the normal build up.


I will again comment that waxed chain is really superb. It stays cleaner than any other lubbed chain I have ever used - your hands do not get dirty when you touch it (I guess unless you biked thru wet mud ofc) - and the independent objective test results confirm that (it is both the lowest friction and highest duribility - among the non-exotic solutions - in testing and those are both a reflection of it being the cleanest - these tests including various 'spray it with dirt' phases). And it is not hard at all to maintain - For a brand new factory chain you do need to use some solvent to wash out the factory grease - or you can buy a 'pre-waxed' chain which someone else has done that to. From there it is not much harder than any other lub - about every 500 miles you do need to pop the chain off but with quick links that is about 10 seconds of work.

It is probably not the right solution for long-distance sustained remote touring though - if thats what you are doing.


as an aside you can get store bought ti Nitrate chains, it is a pretty nice metal finish for all things on a boat. . Shimano dura-ace chain tests just a very very little faster, so I only use the Ti chain on my 'Italian styling bike' (Colnago C64)


A word about suspensions - I absolutely reject them as I like a tight and responsive, non-flexing , light and fast design. Hint: your bent arms and knees are your suspension. Springed seats? You're not supposed to be sitting when you go over a bump, which can cause loss of control.

I have a specialized diverge for my 'gravel' bike - (IMHO) it sits at a superb balance point regarding conformance/performance/weight. It has a seat post designed to add conformance (eg shock absorption) - carbon with an elastomeric flex point. And it has a spring in the stem, which is quite firm, you absolutely don't know is there on the pavement, but makes a real difference over rough ground. And I use 38mm tires with 40-50 psi, which ofc makes a huge difference. And lol, there is no 'loss of control' - the whole system was originally designed for Paris Roubaix race. But YMMV - this seems a very personal trade-off to make.

.........

[OldMan]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I had heard about these problems with the Alfines, but haven't they been solved by now?

Very possible, mine are ~5 years old.

[Capn Jimbo]

Great idea.... we should all trade our boat bikes for a Specialized Diverge - which runs up to $5,000 USD and designed for racing in Paris. I'll get to it just as soon as I finish my Domaine Leroy Richebourg Grand Cru 1949 (Cote de Nuits, France) $5,921 - at about the same price, lol...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

...I have a specialized diverge for my 'gravel' bike - (IMHO) it sits at a superb balance point regarding conformance/performance/weight. It has a seat post designed to add conformance (eg shock absorption) - carbon with an elastomeric flex point. And it has a spring in the stem, which is quite firm, you absolutely don't know is there on the pavement, but makes a real difference over rough ground. And I use 38mm tires with 40-50 psi, which ofc makes a huge difference. And lol, there is no 'loss of control' - the whole system was originally designed for Paris Roubaix race. But YMMV - this seems a very personal trade-off to make. ......

I think many people are put off suspensions on bikes because they've ridden cheap MTBs with floppy cheap shocks.


The geometry, damping, and springing for a well performing rear suspension on a bicycle is pretty challenging and needs some engineering.


My Jetstream has the German-A suspension with high pressure air shocks and adjustable damping. It took me quite a bit of time to get it dialed in right. Like yours, I don't feel the rear suspension at all unless the road is rough -- or on cobblestones for example. It has zero effect on pedalling efficiency. The front suspension is just plush and lovely. Just no issue driving right off curbs or even down flights of stairs. I will hate losing that with the next boat bike.



The original idea of Alex Moulton back in the 50's was that a suspension would be needed to make up for the lesser resiliancy of a small frame bike with small wheels, but that then you would win with weight, rotational mass of the smaller wheels, and especially, air resistance. His idea was that all bikes should be like this.






https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...nument_jeh.jpg

[a64pilot]

Looking at the pics of the bike you posted shows that the rear suspension will most certainly absorb energy on each pedal stroke.
Suspensions add weight, a lot of weight, and make a frame flexible. The holy grail bike frame weighs nothing and is infinitely stiff, but also compliant to absorb small shocks. Aluminum for example can be made light and stiff, but nothing rides worse than an aluminum frame, you will feel every pebble. Titanium comes the closest of all the frame materials to be both, but Carbon fiber wins on the money front, but among other things is easily damaged.
Suspension bikes the geometry is difficult to design as the suspension has to not be affected by pedaling and yet still work on bumps, the flex it puts into a frame can be dealt with to some extent but that adds weight.

Way back in the day my mountain bike was a Specialized Rock Hopper with front suspension, suspension bikes were considered to be pretty much down hill bikes only.

Back 30 yrs ago when I was riding a full size performance bike frame weighed 1 kilogram, I’m sure less now.

A major draw back for us is the weight of our Dahon Mariner’s, hauling them in and out of the boat, but mostly out of the dinghy to the tall docks in the Bahamas was a PIA. The docks there were often 10’ above water for storm survival.
If they lost significant weight it wouldn’t be missed.

[Dockhead]

Another potentially terrific boat bike:


Pacific Cycles


https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/the...flat-fast.html


The most ingenious fold I've ever seen.



It's a full sized bike for those who don't like small wheels (I don't personally have any problem at all with 20", which for me is no compromise except fast downhill riding).


It folds up thin, and with a handle, and with nothing sticking out -- just what you want for a boat bike.


However, looks like it may no longer be in production

[Hudson Force]

Our "ideal" boat bikes were those that we could easily store below because they had quick release wheels. I remember the Trek brand being a better pair. We could hoist these as a bundle using our mizzen halyard to lift them from a dinghy or dock and lower them into our aft cabin. We also had some success with the folding Dahon's, but full size bike's were far better for distance land cruising and carrying supplies.

[newhaul]

For the boat its my dahon cruise and carry 3 speed torpedo internal hub and 16 inch rims .
On land its the 20 inch 7 speed one . Old but still great bikes . Less than a c note in both bikes .

[double u]

we are having 2 mtbs on board: the ladie's 27,5 Canyon full suspension 120mm travel one & my 26“ hardtail with 140mm fox fork that I built up myslf fom components. These enabled us to cross Tahiti (that was a steep one, even with all our granny rings & crawler gears), ride all the way around Moorea, Raiatea, Huahine & Tahaa. Wouldn't want to try these on folding bikes...
Rohloff & other geared hubs are for “mile eaters“, imho a senseless investment for boatbikes.

[Rumpi]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

However, looks like it may no longer be in production

Don't know about production but they are still sold. Both the 26" with Schlumpf drive and the 20" with deraileur. Austrian shop, in stock, will ship:
https://yoom.eu/produkt-kategorie/klapprad/