History of dinghys and a deep think on why we like RIBs

[seashine]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Yes, this is certainly true.

However, I have never seen a hard dinghy with a planing hull used as a tender.

Really? In Australia a lot of cats have aluminium "tinnies" which are lighter than equivalent length RIB, designed to plane (my 3.2m tinnie planes easily with 2 people, a load and a 9.8hp motor) and can carry a kedge out easily into wind and chop... am I the first to mention using a tender to drop an anchor?

[seashine]

Originally Posted by seashine

Really? In Australia a lot of cats have aluminium "tinnies" which are lighter than equivalent length RIB, designed to plane (my 3.2m tinnie planes easily with 2 people, a load and a 9.8hp motor) and can carry a kedge out easily into wind and chop... am I the first to mention using a tender to drop an anchor?

It weighs 57kg without fuel tank/motor/fuel/anchor/chain/oars etc and rows fine.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Superyachts all seem to carry big RIBs though, these days, at least the ones I've been on.

Super yachts will also happily replace a 2yr old RIB...because it's not 0yr old. Their logic is drastically different from a more typical cruiser who would prefer a durable long term dink and life cycle cost and maintenance are big factors.

But even on 40-45' sailboats, planing solid dinks aren't significantly more difficult to store than a similar size RIB.

We had a small 3m RIB that came with our last boat and it really was the worst of both worlds...you couldn't roll it up/disassemble it so it either had to stay on the davits or it took up the entire bow deck area. And it was still a leaky inflatable. I would have preferred a roll up inflatable as you could at least stow it out of the way if you weren't using it.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Ironman162

After some years of trial and error Ive come to the conclusion that I need two dinghys. A hard fibreglass one and an inflatable.

That was us too, until some scrote nicked our GRP 8ft pram dinghy. I had forgotten how easy it was to launch down the slipway (single wheel at the stern) and row out to the yacht, then leave it there whilst we were away. The temporary solution was to buy a second inflatable, an elderly Avon Redcrest in remarkable good condition given its age and add some home made floor boards. We will try it out this year to see how we get along. If not a nesting dinghy could be an interesting winter project. Along with checking out our 3rd Avon in the loft, oh and then there is a seagull outboard to go with it. Too many projects.

Sadly what ever the solution it needs to go on a 31ft yacht, be light and able to be assembled or inflated on the foredeck without the baby stay getting in the way, tricky.

Pete

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by seashine

Really? In Australia a lot of cats have aluminium "tinnies" which are lighter than equivalent length RIB, designed to plane (my 3.2m tinnie planes easily with 2 people, a load and a 9.8hp motor) and can carry a kedge out easily into wind and chop... am I the first to mention using a tender to drop an anchor?

OK, I stand corrected.


I've just never seen such a craft used as a dinghy. Around here, hard dinghies are usually traditional displacement hulls which are nice to row, but can't plane. They are normally heavier than RIBs, too.



So if you have some type of hard dinghy which is on the contrary lighter, and also planes -- that's pretty attractive. How do they row?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Super yachts will also happily replace a 2yr old RIB...because it's not 0yr old. Their logic is drastically different from a more typical cruiser who would prefer a durable long term dink and life cycle cost and maintenance are big factors.

But even on 40-45' sailboats, planing solid dinks aren't significantly more difficult to store than a similar size RIB.

We had a small 3m RIB that came with our last boat and it really was the worst of both worlds...you couldn't roll it up/disassemble it so it either had to stay on the davits or it took up the entire bow deck area. And it was still a leaky inflatable. I would have preferred a roll up inflatable as you could at least stow it out of the way if you weren't using it.

Well, I don't think quality hypalon RIBs need to be replaced every 2 years. My old one was 15 years old when I sold it -- and got decent money for it, too. In all the years I had it, it only leaked briefly when I got a little hole in one tube, which was quickly found and patched. Other than that, I just added air to it once in the autumn when it got cold, and then let air out of it in the spring when it got warm, and that was all the use the pump ever got. "Leaky"? Not necessarily.



I do agree with you about storage, though. Other than not scratching objects which it touches, a regular RIB is as hard or harder to store than a hard dinghy. That's why I got rid of the Avon 340.


But there are folding RIBs. Avon made them (I have the 310 Lite), Zodiac still make them, and then there are the double folding F Ribs, made in Russia. It's much less work to inflate or deflate a folding RIB, because you don't need to roll it up or unroll it. The tubes just fold over into the hull.



Like every kind of dinghy, folding RIBs have their own disadvantages, but these also have a unique combination of advantages.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

OK, I stand corrected.


I've just never seen such a craft used as a dinghy. Around here, hard dinghies are usually traditional displacement hulls which are nice to row, but can't plane. They are normally heavier than RIBs, too.



So if you have some type of hard dinghy which is on the contrary lighter, and also planes -- that's pretty attractive. How do they row?

I'm not so sure hard dinghies are heavier than RIBs. I guess it depends on the brand or design. My 11ft nesting dinghy weighs about 60kg assembled, but each half is so light and small I can manhandle them on and off the boat alone. My old inflatable dinghy with a wood floor was heavier and I think a RIB would be much heavier.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

OK, I stand corrected.


I've just never seen such a craft used as a dinghy. Around here, hard dinghies are usually traditional displacement hulls which are nice to row, but can't plane. They are normally heavier than RIBs, too.



So if you have some type of hard dinghy which is on the contrary lighter, and also planes -- that's pretty attractive. How do they row?

These are common here. I occasionally see them used as dinghys by houseboats and by larger commercial craft (barge tugs).


2019 Alumacraft 12V Boat


12 ft/3.7 meters, 187 lbs/85kg. The row really well, I've done it. You'll note that they come with oarlocks. They come in 14' and 16' lengths also. They are available from a number of makers around the region, and sell for around $2000 new.



There is a version with a squared-off front locally known as a Jon boat that is available in a wider range of sizes. They are intended more for river and shallow water use. I've never seen one in use as a tender. https://www.crestliner.com/cr-jons/1000/

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, I don't think quality hypalon RIBs need to be replaced every 2 years. My old one was 15 years old when I sold it -- and got decent money for it, too. In all the years I had it, it only leaked briefly when I got a little hole in one tube, which was quickly found and patched.

Part of the problem with RIBs, to me, is that the quality is so uneven.


There have been credible reports here of RIBs that have failed in less than two years of regular use. There have also been reports, like yours, of RIBs that lasted over a decade. While the climate where the boat is used has something to do with it, I think the main problem is manufacturing related.

[Chotu]

I have a shorter analysis. Lol

1) load carrying ability
2) form stability
3) weight
4) planing ability/speed

Nothing beats them in these areas.

[Jim Cate]

Our Gemini aluminium hulled 3.5 m RIB weighs 47 kg according to the mfg. I suspect that it is one of the lightest around for its size. Very sturdy hull, now in its 16th year of full time usage. On its third set of tubes: first ones burned up by thieves, second set wore out at around 10 years age, current set is PVC, likely a bit heavier than the hypalon ones, 4+ years in use and doing fine so far (with home made chaps for protection from UV).

We routinely drag it up rough beaches and sometimes over rocks, 'cause Ann and I can't lift it ourselves when the tank, engine, anchor/chain etc are loaded. The hull is scarred and dinged but not corroded, and has no leaks. Where it hasn't been mechanically removed, the white powder coating is still intact... rather to my surprise! (And remember, this hull suffered being filled with petrol and burned when stolen in its early days).

All this talk about how fragile and heavy RIBs are is silly. There may be some poorly made ones out there, but they ain't all bad!

And DH, we are in OZ (as you know) where the tinnie is king... yet the vast majority of the cats that we see (and there are LOTS of them here) use RIBs as tenders. Yes, there are a few with tinnies or other hard dinks, but not as many as suggested upthread. A few monohull yachts use tinnies, but again, not the majority by far.

Jim

[akopac]

We once had a rib with a 16 hp outboard. Ran over a submerged piling. Using special hypalon glue I repaired the 4ft gash in it. Then built a chameleon. Sold the inflatable and outboard. That chameleon sailed better than it rowed, rowed better than it motored, and motored at 5.5 knots with a 3.5 hp outboard. It’s pretty hard to repair a rubber boat and especially on the spot. But an FRP dinghy? You can stuff anything in a hole in a pinch. Glue and anything can repair it. Even apiece of wood and some screws. It’s easy to get in from the water over the stern.

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

So if you have some type of hard dinghy which is on the contrary lighter, and also planes -- that's pretty attractive. How do they row?

Row? Ahahahaa we don't carry oars; they would do no good.... with the dinky emergency oars, I couldn't row our old 3 meter inflatable rib against anything more than 5 knots of headwind anyway...

For this beast, I got a new yamaha engine. Carry spares, appropriate tools, 4kg mantus with 10 meters chain and 20 meters of line to hang from till i fix a problem, dive light, detachable nav lights, VHF, cell phone since a dinghy is almost always within shore range. Usually have a few bottles of water thrown in anyway, often fins and snorkels (i have a range of at least a mile just with those to get to shore and help)..... why would I need oars?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Jammer

These are common here. I occasionally see them used as dinghys by houseboats and by larger commercial craft (barge tugs).


2019 Alumacraft 12V Boat


12 ft/3.7 meters, 187 lbs/85kg. The row really well, I've done it. You'll note that they come with oarlocks. They come in 14' and 16' lengths also. They are available from a number of makers around the region, and sell for around $2000 new.



There is a version with a squared-off front locally known as a Jon boat that is available in a wider range of sizes. They are intended more for river and shallow water use. I've never seen one in use as a tender. https://www.crestliner.com/cr-jons/1000/

I see. I know these boats and have spent a fair amount of time in them. They are very commonly used as fishing boats on lakes in the SE U.S.


I am somewhat skeptical about what kind of a tender that particular boat would make. What is fine on a lake may not be very good on the sea. Those gunnels are low, load carrying capacity is very small, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts there's no way to get into one of those from the water, without tipping it over.


Alumacraft tinnie: 12 feet and weighs 187 pounds, carries only 3 people, or only 650 pounds. Max 10 hp motor.



An 11 foot Avon Rover RIB, on the other hand, weighs 178 pounds, capacity 5 people or 1247 pounds -- nearly double the larger tinnie. Takes a 25 hp motor.


You can row the tinnie, that's a plus, and it will last longer -- no tubes to wear out. That's another plus. But everything else . . .. . and does it have flotation? If you got swamped with a little sea running, you would kind of be at the mercy, even with flotation.



A Jon Boat (popular redneck lake boat -- so I've done my time in them, too ) would be even worse -- would be instantly swamped by any kind of head sea. The ones I have experience with don't have any flotation.




I think the OP was right -- you need a much bigger hard dinghy, to compare like for like with a RIB. I think if we are looking at Alumacraft, you need a 16 footer -- 2019 Alumacraft 16 Boat.


The 16 foot Alumacraft has similar carrying capacity to the Avon 11' RIB. Like the RIB, it will take 25 hp. But it weighs 285 pounds. 16 feet is equal to the maximum beam of my 54 foot yacht, so no way to carry it.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

Row? Ahahahaa we don't carry oars; they would do no good.... with the dinky emergency oars, I couldn't row our old 3 meter inflatable rib against anything more than 5 knots of headwind anyway...

For this beast, I got a new yamaha engine. Carry spares, appropriate tools, 4kg mantus with 10 meters chain and 20 meters of line to hang from till i fix a problem, dive light, detachable nav lights, VHF, cell phone since a dinghy is almost always within shore range. Usually have a few bottles of water thrown in anyway, often fins and snorkels (i have a range of at least a mile just with those to get to shore and help)..... why would I need oars?

Well, on my boat, it's forbidden to get into the dink without the oars. RIBs may not row well, but there are still a lot of situations you can row your way out of. Like running out of fuel Without oars, if anything at all happens to engine or fuel supply -- you're flotsam.


I always also carry a DSC handheld in the dinghy, but in some places I sail, there is no help within 300 miles, and no one to call.


I do think that the superior rowing ability of hard dinghies (at least some hard dinghies) is a significant advantage.