HELP! Tender size vs. Foredeck size (Issues)

[Don C L]

If you are only going a short distance in calm weather, you can tow just about anything. I have a big inflatable kayak which is GREAT as a dinghy, but lousy for keeping inflated on deck. It is 14' and my boat is 29. I towed it home a while back. It started out as 10-15 knots but then in 20 knots, well, the kayak was still calm, being pulled in close to the lee quarter, but I was being lazy. In bigger swells it would have been a potentially hazardous hassle. And it is hard on the dinghy. But for me now, a hard dinghy... for me...I don't see it, unless a portabote like Mike has. Even still that is a big thing to catch wind and waves. Climbing around any boat up on deck really gets old for me fast. A good strong inflatable with an inflatable drop-stitch floor, that gets rolled up when it is time to go, that's what works for me with this boat in this neighborhood. You are right about mounts having to be super strong even if the roll-up is rolled up and lashed to fittings, on the fore-deck perhaps. As I am sure you already know well how waves loves to wash loose lumps off the deck. I must say though that I do entertain a fantasy of towing a long, lean dory, with a good cover, around our islands to use for exploring and fishing while I am out there.

[Bill O]

No one has mentioned a nesting dink. We have a 10' Spindrift hard nester that while on passage can be stored under our mizzen boom over the aft cabin. It keeps the forward area visually clear and doesn't interfere with movement around the boat or sailing gear. It nests down to ~5' x 4' beam x 18"H and assembly/disassembly is approx. 15-20 min. due to the mizzen rigging.

For short trips during good weather, we either tow it or we can also store it on the foredeck. Here assembly/disassembly is only ~ 10 minutes.

Other pluses for the nesting dink vs. inflatable is less weight and can be dragged up on the beach. It rows well and we only need a 4-5 hp OB (2 stroke to keep weight down) to move it along well. We also do not worry about spears or fish being thrown into the boat. Repairs if needed are easy and reliable with epoxy/glass.

Downside (yes, there are some), the 10' is really only a 3 person capacity (although it suggests its a 4 person) and loaded w/2 adults w/gear, top speed is only 7-8 mph so others in inflatables can get there faster/get annoyed by our slower speed then not be invited to travel w/them again.

We had an inflatable and a portabote once, but for our needs the hard nester is better. If I had to do it again I'd go for the 11-12' for the real 4 person capacity.

Cheers.
Bill O.

[Suijin]

I'm limited to a 9'10" RIB based on the size of my coachroof. Further, I'm limited by not having davits as I have a Monitor on the back.

I have a hard bottom fiberglass RIB with a folding transom. When it's deflated it's about the size of a wide surfboard. That part has been important because there (was) a dorade vent with stainless guard on the port side forward of the mast; there was room for the RIB deflated, but not inflated.

I don't mind getting the dink on and off the boat. It's fairly trivial with some purpose-rigged tackle for it. What has been a pain has been having to deflate it to get it to fit. If I wasn't going anywhere I might leave it inflated on the deck, but that blocks off the starboard side deck.

I have solved that problem during my deck refit by removing the dorade and replacing with a low/flush vent. So now the dinghy can be stored on the coachroof, inflated, without blocking the side decks or the bow area. Of course if I'm heading offshore it gets deflated, put in it's case, and secured with racket straps.

Every boat is different and everyone uses their dinghy differently. You design the solution that works best for your needs and constraints.

[Snowpetrel]

Foredeck size is part of the reason I ended up with a old two tonner, the mast is well aft and she has a huge J, big enough to easily carry a 12 foot rigid dinghy with space to spare.

I am cool with the dinghy being half on and half off the cabintop. With luck it helps take care of any sheer in the dinghy as the high bow sits down on the foredeck when the dink is inverted.

It also gives room for the forehatch on a foredeck to open with the dink lashed down.

Ideally the dinghy will also sit there ok upright for short trips. It tends to be more bulky this way, but it is very convenient, and its a hansy place to chuck wet fenders and mooring ropes.

I dont put any dorades, handrails or hatches anywhere near my dinghy spot. A nice flat cabintop is the most versitile.

On one boat we had special chocks to fit the dinghy and it was lashed down with stainless steel turnbuckles. Very secure. Other times I use webbing. I have seen the dinghy take a hell oc a pasting and survive. I disagree with those that say a dinghy on the foredeck is more vunerable than one on the cabin. The sort of event that rips them off is a rollover or knockdown. And the cabin is probably more exposed to this. Especially since these days in that sort of event you are more likely to be sitting on a drogue, with the biggest waves clouting you from aft of the beam.

As far as access forward goes by and large it can be an asset in many cases, providing something secure to stop you falling to the lee side, and lean on.

The best dink from this stowage point of view is a sharpie/dory shape with lots of flare and a narrow bottom. When upside down the flared sides are conveniently angled out of the way and make a nice backrest on good days. The flat bottom sits nicely upright and provides a nice flat standing or sitting area. It even makes it easy to lash a few solar panel on top of the upturned dinghy. The sheer should be reasonably flat, and unfortunately those nicely shaped transom tops with a lot of curve up make it rock when stowed, so the transom is best cut a booring curve to match the camber of the cabin.

I suppose the perfect setup would have a removable section of stern like an outboard well that could let the dinghy slot around the mast. And I have seen a dinghy designed so with the transom removed it fits perfectly over a narrow cabin top, snug to the deck. But this needs an exceptionally wide dinghy, and a narrow cabin to work on most modern boats

A rib with long extensions aft can have the tubes extend past the mast with the transom pulled in close to the mast. That usually gains you a foot ot so. And the tubes can be deflated on log trips for even more room.

Staysails can be cut to just clear the upturned dinghy, giving a good endplate effect when going to windward. When down they can be lashed into a long sausage and tied down onto the bottom of the dinghy or lashed down either side. If the dinghy is upright the sail may need a short tackline to clear the bow of the dink. But it's then very easy to drop the sail into the dinghy. And loosely stow at your leisure.

Its handy to be able to slide the stern of the upright dinghy slightly offcentre so you can leave a small outboard on the stern for short runs or when at anchor.

For shallow water stuff it is always nice to have the dinghy with outboard on upright on deck and ready to go, with my lightweight fortress and a warp in it and the halyard on it bridle attached and run back to a primary cockpit winch. That way if I ran aground it was only a few seconds work to get the whole thing over the side. Also handy for shorelines.

It is much easier to get a dinghy onto the foredeck than behind the mast. No boom in the way, and spinnaker poles and halyards are perfect for thejob. I think the biggest failing of modern production yachts is that they just don't factor all this stuff in, and often tgey ruin what would have been a nice foredeck for a dinghy destroyed by dorades or babystays.

[Nikolina]

On my Islander 32 I had a roll up inflatable under 7', then I built a 6'-6" stitch and glue Minipaw (BandB yacht designs). Both fit on the fore deck with the minipaw on top of the rollup. Still had room to get around to the bow to drop anchor etc..I used the hard dinghy most because at 45 lbs it was easier to launch. I thought it to be a pain to unroll the inflatable, inflate it and then launch it over the railing. My 2 cents anyway

[Polux]

I have the dinghy forward of the mast. It is always a compromise and I would love to have a boat with a dingy garage but they only come over around 50ft, except on some very rare cases.

You have to select the dinghy accordingly to your boat size and one of the important issues is side passage. From previous experiences I know how dangerous can be go forward to the furler with bad weather if you have not enough side passage. With some care you will find dinghies with a smaller beam and the same length as the regular beamier types.

For securing it to the boat I use the fixed dynema lines that I have permanently mounted on the boat (for the harness). Tied to those lines and to the mast pad eye it can really by safely adjusted to the cockpit. I got a f10 without having problems with the dinghy except some minor chafe.

Another point is to provide a possibility of having natural light and air inside without putting the dinghy on the water. Many times he just enjoy the anchorage and don't go ashore. The photo below shows how it can be lifted with a spi halyard, providing ample light and air for the main cabin hatch.


Another important point related with the easiness to put it on the water is weight. Ours has a inflated bottom and only weighs 16kg for a length of 2.4m.

But I dream with a boat with a garage

[Polux]

Another photo, this one with the dinghy mounted on sailing position:


Sorry for the delay but the photo was taken today and after seing it I thought it would be useful to this thread.

[JPA Cate]

In our case, the dinghy just barely fits between the baby stay and the mast, disinflated, for passages. Jim made portable chocks, that fit in braces for them to not slide, and they support the transom. The bow is lashed to a pad eye just aft of the baby stay. Then, we use a strap made from 2" webbing, shackled to a pad eye on the stbd side. It has a "D" ring and light line for lashing to a corresponding pad eye on the port side, and we need to re-tighten the lashing when it's cold. We've only 13 yrs with this arrangement, and it has never been a problem, so far.

Ann

[Nomadsailor]

Wondering what size of boat you have and what size of Porta-bote you opted in combination.

I got a 27 feet boat and think to get me a life raft for longer journeys.
Need a replacement dinghy. Previous one popped when towing. Maybe got damaged when throwing in from the foredeck...

A sailable Porta-bote would be fun and should take 3 adults. That would lead to either the 10 feet (3.27m) or the 12 feet (3.85m) Porta-botes.

There is a YouTube clip showing a guy assembling his Porta-Bote onboard of his boat while at anchor: https://youtu.be/rflbgjoX-fo
Unfortunately he doesn't mention the dimensions of either boat.

Would be happy to be better able to assess whether storage on board (sideboards) would be possible. If that would be the case but assembling on board too much I still might go for the PB and pull it on land using a cheap inflatable.

Also wondering how well the PB behaves when being towed. No one seems to do this.

Would be grateful to hear the dimensions of your boats and anything else you have the share.

[Mike OReilly]

I've had our 10' bote on our previous 34' ketch, and now on our 37' cutter. I'm not sure how it would fit on a 27' sailboat. It's not just the folded bote that you have to carry, but also the seats. But if you can make it work I'm sure you'll like it.

The botes are pretty light, and ride high unloaded. So they produce almost no drag when towed. But they can also surf on waves and even get ahead of the mothership if you're not careful. I almost never tow ours.

We always assemble ours on our foredeck at anchor. But my sailboats have been larger than yours. I bet it can be done though.

[JPA Cate]

Mike, you don't often snorkel from your FoldBote. For snorkeling or SCUBA, the soft, rounded tubes of a conventional inflatable are kinder on the good ladies boobs when re-entering from the water. Trust me............please don't ask!

Ann

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Mike, you don't often snorkel from your FoldBote. For snorkeling or SCUBA, the soft, rounded tubes of a conventional inflatable are kinder on the good ladies boobs when re-entering from the water. Trust me............please don't ask!

Ann

Very true ... and now I'm envisioning all manner of youtube-worthy scenes from your description [emoji6].

[sailorcherry]

Thought I would revive this as we had a lot of compliments this summer from people really finding this setup fun.

To port is a hard dink, a little over 10'. To stbd is a Hobie Tandem Island (18.5' long and 10' beam when assembled, for offshore work you can keep the kayak on deck and the amas in the V). According to my research she is the only sailing cruising vessel out there with one.

The TI has made time at anchor such blast. It gives you a cardiovascular workout (you peddle and can paddle too), a stable platform for assisting in anchoring to snorkeling. Most of all the amazing sailing, such as, under the stars in heavy air thanks to a furling main. It's also fun to race the mothers ship single-handed (we actually tied once since Hooked flew jib only).

The TI was entertaining to tow as well particularly while transiting a narrow and shallow river passing a container ship.

Anyway, I think it makes a really neat portable unconventional dinghy that is wet n fun! Hitting 7kts under sail with a little surfing with 70lbs of provisions in a bin lashed on the tramp was a blast and also relaxing (you can recline back with your feet up) Wind died and cruised in by pedaling (up to 5/6kts). No motor or fuel to deal with and you get the most amazing close encounters with wildlife with being so quiet and able to get into such skinny water. Bonus - environmentally friendly

[roverhi]

Have done long passages with a dink on the foredeck of two different boats. First was a 6' pram like dink that's primary raison d'être was that it fit between the staysail stay and the mast on our Westsail 32. Could carry 2 people but really wasn't all that fun to row. Nice to have a 2nd dink so we could both do our thing ashore at times without leaving the other stranded on the boat or ashore. Carried the Avon Redcrest half inflated aft of the mast.

Current Pearson 35 carry a Montgomery 8' sailing dink on the foredeck. Made chocks to securely stow it. Probably have enough space to go with a nine foot dinghy. The dinghy isn't in the way, in fact is a big help. Makes going forward at sea much more secure as I use it as a hand hold. Also stand on the transom when I need a little extra height with the main or spinnaker pole. Plenty of room to work with the furler/headsail tack area and the windlass forward of the dink. The Montgomery rows and sails well and is a joy to have on board as I don't like outboards.