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28-01-2020, 00:51
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Irish Sea
Posts: 1,321
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Emergency rudder/Windvane vs ladder?
I want to mount a windvane, which also serve as emergency rudder. My problem is:
Does a Monitor or Aries have to be mounted in the center? I am afraid so, because it wouldn't make much use if heeling the "wrong way"...
__________________
Useful as a fireproof bottom paint...
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28-01-2020, 01:06
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 9,319
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Re: Emergency rudder/Windvane vs ladder?
Most windvanes allow for some offset mounting. The install manuals will discuss it.
__________________
Paul
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28-01-2020, 01:18
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the boat, somewhere in Australia.
Boat: Swanson 42 & Kelly Peterson 44
Posts: 9,112
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Re: Emergency rudder/Windvane vs ladder?
Helped a friend install a hydrovane on his boat a month or so back. Exactly the same scenario as your boat.
No problems with the off-center install according to Hydrovane and he’s had no problem with performance on either tack.
__________________
Refitting… again.
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28-01-2020, 01:19
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the boat, somewhere in Australia.
Boat: Swanson 42 & Kelly Peterson 44
Posts: 9,112
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Re: Emergency rudder/Windvane vs ladder?
Can’t remember if the monitor can be used as an emergency rudder, but I don’t think the Aries can.
Hydrovane does function as an emergency rudder.
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Refitting… again.
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28-01-2020, 01:32
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Irish Sea
Posts: 1,321
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Re: Emergency rudder/Windvane vs ladder?
As I understand the Monitor can, might need some additional work though.
I'll check the instructions, but also happy to see examples. Removing the ladder is not completely off the table but I'd keep it if I can.
__________________
Useful as a fireproof bottom paint...
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28-01-2020, 02:43
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#6
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 18,398
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Re: Emergency rudder/Windvane vs ladder?
Peter at Pacific Windpilot says just move the boarding ladder, he has a point as it opens up the options for which vane you can then choose.
Pete
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28-01-2020, 05:30
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,642
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Re: Emergency rudder/Windvane vs ladder?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7
Peter at Pacific Windpilot says just move the boarding ladder, he has a point as it opens up the options for which vane you can then choose.
Pete
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The area behind a rudder is turbulent, propwash and rudder stream flow ..nothing wrong with offsetting your second rudder into clean water flow
Mounting offset could be complicated by the geometry of the windvane you choose
Your boarding ladder is a critical piece of safety equipment
Whatever you decide be sure that the function of the ladder is maintained
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28-01-2020, 08:36
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Boat: Montgomery 23
Posts: 220
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Re: Emergency rudder/Windvane vs ladder?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTom
I want to mount a windvane, which also serve as emergency rudder. My problem is:
Does a Monitor or Aries have to be mounted in the center? I am afraid so, because it wouldn't make much use if heeling the "wrong way"...
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Cape Horn vanes can also be mounted off-center.
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28-01-2020, 08:47
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Maine
Boat: Wauquiez Gladiateur, 33’
Posts: 45
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Re: Emergency rudder/Windvane vs ladder?
I also have been thinking about this. In the past I travelled over 1,000 miles with a Windpilot. We boarded on the starboard side of the boat. Now I have the same problem with a new to me Wauquiez. If you move the ladder you run into the problem of the Stern pulpit in the way of boarding the boat. Also the vane. I am going to remove the ladder which we don’t use anyway. We still board on the starboard side. I drag a 50’ floating line with knots offshore.
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28-01-2020, 08:53
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Olympia, Washington
Boat: 1979 Mariner Ketch 32-Hull 202
Posts: 2,124
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Re: Emergency rudder/Windvane vs ladder?
Quote:
Originally Posted by slug
The area behind a rudder is turbulent, propwash and rudder stream flow ..nothing wrong with offsetting your second rudder into clean water flow
Mounting offset could be complicated by the geometry of the windvane you choose
Your boarding ladder is a critical piece of safety equipment
Whatever you decide be sure that the function of the ladder is maintained
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When deciding on steering controls and especially emergency rudders.
Priorities, swim ladders are NOT a priority.
These can be removed and replaced with many other viable options, that will not affect the performance of emergency equipment.
Another thing to consider is the "what if" questions:
What if the rudder falls off, or is completely unusable.
Then I use my Emergency rudder, but what if that's not working or breaks as well.
Point is HAVE MORE THAN 1 redundant back up.
You have limited options, make more than 1 plan.
SV Cloud Duster
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28-01-2020, 09:10
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 74
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Re: Emergency rudder/Windvane vs ladder?
I moved my sternladder off to the side to allow for the aries lift up mount to be installed about 4" to the other side from centerline and both seem to work fine
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28-01-2020, 09:10
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Venezia - Italy
Boat: Amel Sharki #68 of 1982, 39 feet
Posts: 12
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Re: Emergency rudder/Windvane vs ladder?
I prefer to keep the wind vane on the midline of the boat as more protected by the keel/rudder from floating objects. On my Albin Vega I had a transom midline swimming ladder. I purchased a Pacific Light Windvane and Peter, the company owner, suggested to move the ladder to the port side, which I did. On my boat the pushpits have a midline entry to climb up into the boat. Now that I have the ladder on the port side, I climb into the cockpit passing over the port pushpit, which is not a problem. I am happy with the arrangement suggested by Peter. :-)
Marco Baldan
Albin Vega 3339 Spray
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28-01-2020, 09:11
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#13
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 18,398
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Re: Emergency rudder/Windvane vs ladder?
Quote:
Originally Posted by slug
The area behind a rudder is turbulent, propwash and rudder stream flow ..nothing wrong with offsetting your second rudder into clean water flow
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How do you stop the blade coming out of the water when sailing to windward and the boat is leaning over, this is the reason for mounting on the centre line?
Quote:
Originally Posted by slug
Your boarding ladder is a critical piece of safety equipment. Whatever you decide be sure that the function of the ladder is maintained
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Agreed, but the boarding ladder doesn't have to be on the centre line of the yacht.
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28-01-2020, 09:21
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Currently in Spain
Boat: Island Packet 420
Posts: 419
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Re: Emergency rudder/Windvane vs ladder?
I believe the Monitor now makes a vane that hinges, so you can use the ladder. But I installed a Hydrovane on my boat, just enough off -center so I can use the stern boarding ladder. Not a problem.
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28-01-2020, 09:25
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,642
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Re: Emergency rudder/Windvane vs ladder?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7
How do you stop the blade coming out of the water when sailing to windward?
Agreed, but the boarding ladder doesn't have to be on the centre line of the yacht.
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Sure...you have some leeway when mounting the ladder
Be aware that the regulations state .....
“Protection from falling overboard and means of reboarding
Watercraft shall be designed to minimise the risks of falling overboard and to facilitate reboarding. “
Means of reboarding shall be accessible to or deployable by a person in the water unaided. “
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