Dinghy Quality

[a64pilot]

[QUOTE=Boatguy30;2639914]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

There is a good shop in St Augustine, and one at Cape Canaveral.





Which one in St Aug. I have an Avon that needed a small patch but near a seam. Was quotes $240 for a patch on one dime sized hole locally.

I Googled St Augustine dinghy repair and this came up.
Almost certain this is the one.
http://fairwindsboatrepairs.com

[Kenomac]

Bin your proven POS dinghy and buy a Highfield, then don’t look back.

[JPA Cate]

The advice for the Highfield may still be good. For a while, at any rate, they were using some pretty heavy duty German-made PVC for their tubes. It is those tubes that we had glued on our aluminum RIB when the lightweight hypalon wore out, but that was going on 3 yrs ago, now, and things change.

Sorry, but I don't know how to find out if they are still using the same quality PVC.

Ann

[james247]

Originally Posted by bobnlesley

Where've you cruised from/to? When we left Britain we used a PVC dinghy and it was fine, no problems down the Atlantic coast of Europe either, but once we got into the Mediterranean that and it's replacement soon shrivelled-up and died in the sun. We got hypalon after that and they do hold together much better in strong UV conditions, so my advice would be to buy hypalon if you're heading for sunnier climes, the price difference will be repaid in about 18-24 months - the time our PVC ones lasted in the Med.

Commercial operators in northern Queensland always have a sun over which goes right down to the water line. My rib is 10 yrs old living all its life between the tropics of Capricorn and Cancer. Wasn't,t cheep to start with

[KD8NPB]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

20 months ago I brought a new dinghy to replace my old one. I had the old one for 5 years and it came with my first boat and was pretty old looking at that time (it was a West Marine branded Achilles). It had a slow valve leak I could have fixed and 1 small patch. Other than that it was your basic removable floor dirty dinghy.

So before I left to go full time cruising I decided to replace it. I ended up getting a PVC because the price difference seemed questionable. I've been cleaning it and applying protectant to it since I got it.

Within a year fittings started pulling off. First it was the holders for the outside rope holders. Then it was an oar holder, then the other oar holder, then the inside handles started peeling off. Now it's the transom coming off the tubes. This on a 20 month old dinghy that has been having protectant applied and even covered last year when I was just sittting in a marina for 3 months.

Yet the old dinghy, that I bet was way over 8 years old, didn't have a single fitting coming off!!!!


Has my experience been bad, or are others seeing the same thing? I've started shopping replacements and it appears every manufacturer is only warranting the fittings for 1 year! That pretty much says that they expect them to start failing after that.

Depends on PVC/TPR fittings vs EPDM.

EPDM is a softer thermoset rubber material. It is more prone to mildew spotting, and disintegration.

PVC/TPR is a thermoform plastic more prone to ungluing, due to the plasticizer degradation.

Originally Posted by danielamartindm

Could the protectant have anything to do with the fittings coming off? PVC tenders have been around forever, but I've only recently been reading accounts like yours, with fittings detaching. You didn't mention the brand of the new dinghy. I just bought a Zodiac PVC, and since then I read of someone having the same issues that you're having, with a Zodiac PVC. Perhaps other readers will chime in. Has this been happening to Hypalon tenders too, or is it brand related? Some anecdotal accounts might be illuminating.

Protectants with silicone or petroleum can cause material or adhesive failure.

Zodiac offers a wide range of products and quality levels, so judging based on one product is not really accurate. It's like saying an Acura NSX is the same as a Honda Civic. Same factory, same company, completely different product lines.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

My $3,000 Hypalon Zodiac Cadet 3.10 RIB began falling apart in a little over a year. I got rid of it as I was actually afraid a huge seam would open up any day now or the tubes come off of the hull. Lasted three years before I finally gave up.
Same as you, the glue started letting go and after it was a few months old, I had to pump it back up every time we wanted to use it. It began leaking at the glued together seams, again a glue failure. I never used a protectant. Hypalon was fine, Boat and glue was falling apart.

Now I have a Hypalon AB, aluminum hull, and have a set of chaps on it from the beginning. I sure hope it lasts longer. So far I have not had to add any air at all.

I pray you don't, AB's warranty support is a nightmare. They're also having a lot of problems with their tubesets ungluing off their aluminum boats because they don't use ethanolamine primer between the CR and the ALU before applying adhesive. Mechanical prep only, so the joint corrodes prematurely and the adhesive fails because it's bonded to the corrosion/oxide layer rather than the aluminum.

I didn't see any structural problems on your old Cadet from the pictures I saw. As I told you before, I could have restored it to ~85% condition in about 6 hr.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Pretty sure the point of manufacture for my Zodiac was China.
Also apparently for the first time in decades the amount of CFC’s in the atmosphere is actually increasing again, even though it’s use has been outlawed in developed nations for a long time.
Not sure the Chinese are concerned about CFC’s or VOC’s.
https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/...009035.article

I suspect it’s just cheap inferior glue

The fittings ungluing on your boat were caused by them degrading from UV and the boat being ~3 years old. They could have been cleaned and reglued quite easily.

The edge leaks were just from wear & tear, combined with hand-application of adhesive. CSM/CR can ONLY be hand glued, which causes variances. Edge "creamer" leaks are not unusual for CSM/CR and they aren't the end of the world. They're quite easy to fix, as long as the adherent strength is still go. Your air leakage case appeared to be warranty-able, however, it appeared to me that your service station was not very truthful.

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I don’t see how as I don’t really even apply the protectant to the fittings because they seem so thick that I doubt that the UV gets through them. Plus if it was protectant why aren’t the glued seams failing.

My theory is that gluing the fittings on is an after thought and they don’t plan on them lasting. So for $0.25 worth of glue my dinghy is falling apart.

It is more than likely just a simple case of the fittings degrading before the material did, which can cause them to debond.

Originally Posted by Ecos

I bought a Defender RIB in hypalon, all the plastic bits have fallen off and the transom is starting to go too. It's going on 4 yrs old now. Stored under cover during the summer and it has chaps.

Defender uses the same Chinese factory as many other brands.

///

Nothing lasts forever. I'm not sure why people expect dinghies to. Most adhesives only have a 10 year life expectancy per Bostik or 3M. If you want to sacrifice ride quality, comfort, and weight for neglect-proofing, buy a fiberglass dinghy.

[a64pilot]

Nothing last forever, but you should get more than a year before they start falling apart, mine spent winters in an aircraft hanger out of the sun, so it wasn’t even a full year really.
However I am quite suspicious about the service center as well.
What I should have done was take the boat down to Ft Lauderdale where I found out Zodiac US is located, but I didn’t know that then.
My plan was to have the boat repaired professionally then move on, but was stymied when I was told “I can’t fix that, it’s falling apart”

[KD8NPB]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Nothing last forever, but you should get more than a year before they start falling apart, mine spent winters in an aircraft hanger out of the sun, so it wasn’t even a full year really.

Absolutely agreed!

Originally Posted by a64pilot

What I should have done was take the boat down to Ft Lauderdale where I found out Zodiac US is located, but I didn’t know that then.

Zodiac US corporate + factory is Summerville, South Carolina.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

My plan was to have the boat repaired professionally then move on, but was stymied when I was told “I can’t fix that, it’s falling apart”

All-too-common in the inflatables industry! Many service centers are "new boat dealers" masquerading as service centers. Drives me nuts.

[a64pilot]

So what is in Ft Lauderdale then? Just a big dealer?

[Boatguy30]

I'm not aware of a zodiac headquarters in ft Lauderdale. You mean 84 boatworks or lifeline?

AB is suffern Ny of all places. And just was told warranty on ABs only transfer if it's sold within first year AND original owner buys another AB. What a scam! So if it a trouble free enough boat and the guy wants a bigger boat he's covered. But if it's one with glue failures to the hull and guy want to sell it, AB doesn't want to warranty a boat like that! Really poor/ non-existent ethics

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

I'm not aware of a zodiac headquarters in ft Lauderdale. You mean 84 boatworks or lifeline?

AB is suffern Ny of all places. And just was told warranty on ABs only transfer if it's sold within first year AND original owner buys another AB. What a scam! So if it a trouble free enough boat and the guy wants a bigger boat he's covered. But if it's one with glue failures to the hull and guy want to sell it, AB doesn't want to warranty a boat like that! Really poor/ non-existent ethics

If you read most product warranties they are limited to the original purchaser.

[Colin A]

Back when I worked on inflatables we used Amazon inflatable cleaner and 303 protectant. Seemed to work well. Most of the time we saw PVC dinghies fail it was either UV exposure (either sticky or brittle) or transom glue fails.

[KD8NPB]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

So what is in Ft Lauderdale then? Just a big dealer?

Basically. Factory outlet store. Servicing dealer is Lifelines in Miami Gardens, FL.

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

AB is suffern Ny of all places. And just was told warranty on ABs only transfer if it's sold within first year AND original owner buys another AB. What a scam! So if it a trouble free enough boat and the guy wants a bigger boat he's covered. But if it's one with glue failures to the hull and guy want to sell it, AB doesn't want to warranty a boat like that! Really poor/ non-existent ethics

The suffern, NY location a little corporate office suite. They use third parties for distribution and rigging.

Originally Posted by Paul L

If you read most product warranties they are limited to the original purchaser.

Most, but not all. Zodiac/Bombard/Avon warranties are transferable, as long as the original warranty is registered with the company.

Originally Posted by Colin A

Back when I worked on inflatables we used Amazon inflatable cleaner and 303 protectant. Seemed to work well. Most of the time we saw PVC dinghies fail it was either UV exposure (either sticky or brittle) or transom glue fails.

My preferences.

Cleaners:
https://www.higleyinc.com/product/in...-boat-cleaner/

Protectant:
https://yachtingessentials.com/produ...atable-finish/
or
https://www.amazon.com/303-30306-Aer.../dp/B000XBCURW

I've heard good things about this stuff, but it costs a premium:
https://www.defender.com/product3.js...293&id=3655149

[Group9]

One alternative to consider, our 1989 Boston Whaler 11 foot dinghy is 29 years old, and still going strong. It shrugs iff rocky beaches, laughs at sharp nails sticking out of third world docks, and could care less if the outboards on the other dinghies are left up or down,

[Colin A]

Originally Posted by KD8NPB

Basically. Factory outlet store. Servicing dealer is Lifelines in Miami Gardens, FL.



The suffern, NY location a little corporate office suite. They use third parties for distribution and rigging.



Most, but not all. Zodiac/Bombard/Avon warranties are transferable, as long as the original warranty is registered with the company.



My preferences.

Cleaners:
https://www.higleyinc.com/product/in...-boat-cleaner/

Protectant:
https://yachtingessentials.com/produ...atable-finish/
or
https://www.amazon.com/303-30306-Aer.../dp/B000XBCURW

I've heard good things about this stuff, but it costs a premium:
https://www.defender.com/product3.js...293&id=3655149

Yeah 303 is pretty cool when I was working on inflatables I actually went to a training seminar put on by 303. Also a long time sales rep for Zodiac (in the 80's and 90's ) told me there independent testing in the late 80's showed 303 to be one of the most effective forms of UV protection.

[Colin A]

Originally Posted by Group9

One alternative to consider, our 1989 Boston Whaler 11 foot dinghy is 29 years old, and still going strong. It shrugs iff rocky beaches, laughs at sharp nails sticking out of third world docks, and could care less if the outboards on the other dinghies are left up or down,

It takes more work to get it there but an inflatable can last a long time. I have an Achilles LT-2 from 1979 or 1980 that still works fine. The oldest inflatable boat still in use I have seen was a Zodiac made in the late 60's. Now of course these are exceptions but they can happen. Plus seasonal use here in New England helps.