Dinghy glue repair at transom

[KD8NPB]

Repairing with incorrect materials (5200 or epoxy), I will either not repair it or I charge for precleaning. It typically triples the repair bill ($95 patch becomes $300). Most other professionals have the same opinions as me.

Be warned. The correct materials for the task are cheap, and they ensure your safety.

[donradcliffe]

Richard, no disrespect, but the correct materials are not available in the field and not practical to carry on a cruising boat due to shelf life issues. Repairs with 5200 are fugly, but they work. In fact they probably work better than the factory materials which made the dinghy in question fall apart in the first place.

[KD8NPB]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Richard, no disrespect, but the correct materials are not available in the field and not practical to carry on a cruising boat due to shelf life issues. Repairs with 5200 are fugly, but they work. In fact they probably work better than the factory materials which made the dinghy in question fall apart in the first place.

I guess I should take more pictures and video of patches with 5200 when I peel them off with my fingertips, or they're leaking like crazy around them.

Factory materials have a lifespan, as does all bedding compounds (5200). Typically about 10-15 years. On off-brand products, such as "flavor of the month" chinese imports, it tends to be half that of a quality product.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Richard, no disrespect, but the correct materials are not available in the field and not practical to carry on a cruising boat due to shelf life issues. Repairs with 5200 are fugly, but they work. In fact they probably work better than the factory materials which made the dinghy in question fall apart in the first place.

actually the shelf life is a lot longer-term than you think. That clock starts ticking when you first open it. To not carry the correct repair materials on a cruising boat just ensures that you will need it. Use the correct glue .
5200 while it will work for a time it will eventually fail catastrophically on a pvc boat.
It will last a bit longer on hyapalon boats.

[Jim Cate]

actually the shelf life is a lot longer-term than you think. That clock starts ticking when you first open it.

This is not my experience. When we first left the USA I bought a sealed tin of Bostic two part, knowing that my elderly Zodiac (old grey Hypalon type) was gonna need help. A year later when I opened the tin, there was a solid, hard mass of ex-glue in it. An expensive waste of time and money.

When we got to Oz I was introduced to SC2000 by a inflatable shop chap. He sent me off to a place that built conveyors for the coal loaders in Gladstone to buy some. I was asked "what size?" I asked what was available... "any t hing from a tank car full through 200 liter drums down to 1 liter tins". We chose the latter, and found that if you kept the catalyst in the fridge and had some thinner its shelf life was essentially forever... and it made very good repairs on Hypalon (and lots of other stuff on the boat).

But the Bostic... I'm not the only cruiser who had it go off in the tin, so I think Don was corret (he may well have been one of the folks I remember bitching about this subject!).

Jim

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

This is not my experience. When we first left the USA I bought a sealed tin of Bostic two part, knowing that my elderly Zodiac (old grey Hypalon type) was gonna need help. A year later when I opened the tin, there was a solid, hard mass of ex-glue in it. An expensive waste of time and money.

When we got to Oz I was introduced to SC2000 by a inflatable shop chap. He sent me off to a place that built conveyors for the coal loaders in Gladstone to buy some. I was asked "what size?" I asked what was available... "any t hing from a tank car full through 200 liter drums down to 1 liter tins". We chose the latter, and found that if you kept the catalyst in the fridge and had some thinner its shelf life was essentially forever... and it made very good repairs on Hypalon (and lots of other stuff on the boat).

But the Bostic... I'm not the only cruiser who had it go off in the tin, so I think Don was corret (he may well have been one of the folks I remember bitching about this subject!).

Jim

Jim that I'm sure is true wrt the bostic branded stuff my experience is with the weaver branded stuff I have opened kp cans that were 5 years old and it was fine . But as soon as you open the can you introduce humidity and it starts kicking . They say that starts the 1 year shelf life point.

[KD8NPB]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

This is not my experience. When we first left the USA I bought a sealed tin of Bostic two part, knowing that my elderly Zodiac (old grey Hypalon type) was gonna need help. A year later when I opened the tin, there was a solid, hard mass of ex-glue in it. An expensive waste of time and money.

When we got to Oz I was introduced to SC2000 by a inflatable shop chap. He sent me off to a place that built conveyors for the coal loaders in Gladstone to buy some. I was asked "what size?" I asked what was available... "any t hing from a tank car full through 200 liter drums down to 1 liter tins". We chose the latter, and found that if you kept the catalyst in the fridge and had some thinner its shelf life was essentially forever... and it made very good repairs on Hypalon (and lots of other stuff on the boat).

But the Bostic... I'm not the only cruiser who had it go off in the tin, so I think Don was corret (he may well have been one of the folks I remember bitching about this subject!).

Jim

Depends on packaging procedures.

If the cans are purged with nitrogen or argon before packaging, shelf life is longer. Also, paint can lids tend to get popped open in transit.

In my experience, the Zodiac OEM adhesive (Z7096 + Z7098) which is made by Bostik France, has a shelf life of 1 year. 2 years if stored in air-conditioning.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by KD8NPB

Repairing with incorrect materials (5200 or epoxy), I will either not repair it or I charge for precleaning. It typically triples the repair bill ($95 patch becomes $300). Most other professionals have the same opinions as me.

Be warned. The correct materials for the task are cheap, and they ensure your safety.

I'd love to be able to use the proper glues, but often (many places in the third world where we have cruised) it is not available. Could I have carried it along? Reports of "proper glues" that are useless after a year or less scared me away from that plan, and even if the glue lasts for a long time if unopened, does that mean you need a new can for every repair? Carry in the refer? Mine is small.

But we too have had transom issues on our PVC Zodiac, along with the sudden dropping off of almost every glued on part (such as the bow eye). The heat sealed seams are fine however. Then there are holes (example: a careless smoker dropped a butt into our boat, dang).

What to do if you are a cruiser in a third world country and your dingy won't keep the air in or the water out?

I glued the bow eye back on with thickened epoxy, after cleaning, sanding and clamping. It has held for 5 years. I have glued the transom PVC to the wood, also with epoxy. Less successful, it still leaks water, and folding the boat tends to breaks the epoxy loose, but at least the boat is usable.

I used contact cement on most of the small bits and labels which all fell off. This works if there is no force applied.

I used super glue, (yes superglue) to stick small patches on over the holes, and it has been brilliant, for a year or two, then it must be redone.

Bottom line, Richard is probably right, the proper materials are really the only correct way to go, but if you have to fix something, you use what you can get.

Oh, point two, I had a Zodiac in the 80's, it fell apart. I should have learned my lesson, because my latest one 2009, is also pretty poor.

[KD8NPB]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I'd love to be able to use the proper glues, but often (many places in the third world where we have cruised) it is not available. Could I have carried it along? Reports of "proper glues" that are useless after a year or less scared me away from that plan, and even if the glue lasts for a long time if unopened, does that mean you need a new can for every repair? Carry in the refer? Mine is small.

But we too have had transom issues on our PVC Zodiac, along with the sudden dropping off of almost every glued on part (such as the bow eye). The heat sealed seams are fine however. Then there are holes (example: a careless smoker dropped a butt into our boat, dang).

What to do if you are a cruiser in a third world country and your dingy won't keep the air in or the water out?

I glued the bow eye back on with thickened epoxy, after cleaning, sanding and clamping. It has held for 5 years. I have glued the transom PVC to the wood, also with epoxy. Less successful, it still leaks water, and folding the boat tends to breaks the epoxy loose, but at least the boat is usable.

I used contact cement on most of the small bits and labels which all fell off. This works if there is no force applied.

I used super glue, (yes superglue) to stick small patches on over the holes, and it has been brilliant, for a year or two, then it must be redone.

Bottom line, Richard is probably right, the proper materials are really the only correct way to go, but if you have to fix something, you use what you can get.

Oh, point two, I had a Zodiac in the 80's, it fell apart. I should have learned my lesson, because my latest one 2009, is also pretty poor.

Boats don't last forever. Maintenance is to be expected.

The expectation for a tender to last forever and require zero maintenance is unrealistic.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by KD8NPB

Boats don't last forever. Maintenance is to be expected.

The expectation for a tender to last forever and require zero maintenance is unrealistic.

Experience has led me to agree with this view!

The Zodiac mentioned in my previous post was a Mark II, Hypalon with glued seams. We used it full time up to its 16th year. Unfortunately, it only lasted 13 years. We knew that it was a loosing battle for those last three years, but our budget didn't allow replacement, so patching and replacing the floor eeked out the additional service. This extension of life would likely not have been possible with a PVC boat (in the unlikely event that it hadn't completely fallen apart) because of the difficulty in gluing PVC in the field and with available supplies.

Those were good years of cruising, mostly in the S Pacific, but worrying about being stranded by a dead dink was unnerving at times!

Jim

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by KD8NPB

Boats don't last forever. Maintenance is to be expected.

The expectation for a tender to last forever and require zero maintenance is unrealistic.

Richard, In no way did we express an expectation that tenders should last forever or require zero maintenance so it is unkind of you to allude that and imply that our expectations are unrealistic.

As far as tender maintenance goes, always keep the dingy clean and covered. When not is use it should be rolled properly and stored in a bag (usually not the original bags which do not last very long). Do not keep the dingy in the water. Avoid getting sand in the bottom and if it does come in, wash it it out promptly. Attend to any issues which are found immediately (as you would expect when one depends on the tender for daily transportation.) Always glue back the parts that fall off even if they are not needed (such as Zodiac labels). Make a new bag after the first 6 months of buying your Zodiac, and then after every 2-3 years. I don't know what other maintenance you would expect people to be doing.

Our first Zodiac was an 1984 Mark II Hypalon which, by 1988 was coming totally unglued. it was re-glued by a Zodiac dealer for $450, but that did not stop the problems. Then we had an Avon 3.41 with the air deck. This dingy was good for over 13 years although we initially had problems with the air-deck which were resolved over time. When we needed a replacement in 2009 Avon no longer sold a 3.41. So we bought a Zodiac PVC 3.6 Active-V (I will say that we prefer the inflatable floors because they allow us to store the tender below when we are at sea). Limiting my comments regarding this boat to the issues of parts falling off and seams opening up, all I will say is that we had trouble right away and within 5 years we were in complete repair mode on a monthly basis. There were (and still are) design issues with this boat as well and we had an unsatisfactory response from Zodiac USA to an inquiry, however we still have it and still use it. I may need to replace the floor this winter before next year's cruise.

I hope that resolves for you any doubts you have about a good maintenance program or our expectations.

If you would care to, we'd all still like to hear your response to the choice of products to repair our failing Zodiacs, considering that we are often doing it in far away places where there are no dingy repair facilities or even a marine store, let alone a climate controlled repair environment. Should we carry a case of proper two part glue so that we can have a newly opened can each time we need a repair? Should they be in the refer until needed? (necessitating a separate refer just for glue?) or would you agree that we should use whatever we can get to keep our Zodiacs together until we get back to civilization?

[elk]

I also have a PVC dinghy, and years ago I found that Home Depot PVC cement works great. I bought a square of PVC shower floor liner at Home Depot along with the appropriate PVC cement. I have several patches on the floor and on the tubes of the dinghy and they are all holding well after years. You do need to use the primer first, and then the cement.
Works for me.
Ed

[farmall.dude]

I'm surprised no one mentioned this... Contact the manufacturer and ask them what to use. https://www.crowleymarine.com/2/Quic...rial-Range.cfm. It looks like they sell tubes of adhesive too.
Just a thought.

[tomtriad]

I used Gougeon Gflex to make the exact same repair on a Chinese hypalon dinghy. I first tried contact cement, then 4200 - neither worked. Gflex did the trick - no fillers required, mix what you need, long shelf life, cures much quicker than 5200 and makes less mess. Easy to carry on your boat.

Try the Gflex on some of the fabric first to see if it will stick.

I would clean all surfaces really well with solvents to remove all the old failed glue, then rough up the surfaces, glue with Gflex, and clamp. I used stainless pan head screws and fender washers through the neoprene flange into the wood transom (left in place after the repair). Clamping the inflated tubes was a challenge - rope looped around and a "spanish windlass" (inserting a stick in the loose loop and twisting up the slack) worked. I wedged the knotted end of a rope between the tube and the floor inside the transom and got some compression there as well. You can duct tape the rowlock down until the Gflex sets.

[dancor01]

Originally Posted by dneve

MY PVC Zodiac's floor came lose because of the heat here in Florida and several regluings with two part PVC glue never lasted. Best to try 5200.

5200 doesn't work
Neither the PVC glue That they sale at $35 for a few drop.


Best product I have found is made by Loctite PL pro line, Roof and Flashing

It's is a polyurethane sealant. Cure in 24 hrs. Cost $6.00 a cartridge.


Con: only come in black. So have to be careful with it if you care about the look.


Instructions: Clean the surface. NO trace left of that PVC glue. Sand the area to make it lightly rough, both part. Apply the caulking with spatula about 1/16 thick, put the patch on top. Peice of wood over it to cover the area of the patch. Apply around 10 pound of pressure on it (Depends how big or small the area is) Dive weight does wonder there. Let it cure 24 hrs.



2 years later ithasn't bulged. In the Tropics.