Comparing RIBs to HP air floors

[ohdrinkboy]

i've noticed people are no longer talking about takacat. anyone using one? I would think they are perfect for this application.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by ohdrinkboy

i've noticed people are no longer talking about takacat. anyone using one? I would think they are perfect for this application.

OP wants Hypalon not PVC... unfortunately, I haven't found a cat dinghy in hypalon.

We sold our RIB a few years ago and replaced it with a high pressure air floor WalkerBay 310 so we could store it below deck when offshore. Having sailed with the RIB on deck of our 34' Sabre across the Atlantic, I didn't want to be forced to do that again with the new boat.

The high pressure floor is incredible solid when properly inflated, but the other issues posted above are true; sand and water in the boat requires pulling the air floor out, the pvc floor does degrad with UV exposure and gasoline, and you have to be careful what you put in the dinghy isn't sharp.

I really like the air floor so far for weight, storage and cost. But, having said that.... we'll go back to a RIB if we get to the point that we are no longer doing longer offshore passages (or bigger boat)

Matt

[KD8NPB]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

From my experience, no they are not rigid enough if you want to go fast in less than flat water. But that doesnt mean you cant do it. I just found the whole thing to be rather like riding on a noodle.

I don't think you had it inflated to the correct pressure.

Most Zodiac air floors take 11.2 psi. At that pressure, it's like a piece of plywood with almost no give. It's a small compartment of air too, so if you inflate it then put the boat in cold water, the cold water reduces the pressure substantially.

For "true tenders", I tend to prefer the Cadet Fastroller 285 Acti-V. It's one of the last "made in France" PVC tenders available in the market with a 99% welded construction of Strongan 800 material (no other manufacturer has welded floors and welded transoms). It's light, planes easily with 5/6hp, and can easily be stowed by one person. The only downside though, is I would strongly recommend investing in an electric pump such as the Bravo 12 BST HP in order to maintain the floor at the proper pressure.

I like the Fastroller 325 and 360 too, but they start getting a little heavy for me.

The Futura MK2 and MK3 with air floors are a lot of fun, but they weigh a ton. They would be more for an "expedition" boater. The heavier weight Strongan 1200 material makes them tip the scales at about 200 lb.

In my experience, CSM/CR air floors tend to be "mushy". Because they are 100% glued, their operational pressure is lower, or you risk a blowout. Zodiac's PVC floors are about 99% welded (there tends to be a few little PVC bits glued on, like the retention straps in the back), and they get overpressure tested at the factory at ~15 psi.

[J Clark H356]

I have an Avon, 2004 model hypalon air floor and the floor is also hypalon. It has been great, but when I replace it, will be with a RIB. My problem with it is that even inflated to it’s proper pressure, when I stand in it, my feet get wet as I make the low point. I originally had a 4HP Yamaha 4 stroke , replaced it with a 5HP Lehr. Goes 4 knots at about half throttle but will not plane with my wife and I. I have towed it across the Gulf of Mexico, down and back the Tenn-Tom waterway and all over Ky Lake. I keep it upside down on my foredeck unless I am traveling, then it is towed without the motor. My only issue is the water in it gets us wet when we step in and although I pump it out, there is still enough under the floor that collects where we step and put a point load on it.
The best thin is, I can haul it up with my spinnaker halyard without much worry of damaging it or the boat. I’ll get a fiberglass rib next, but will have more worries getting it on and off and it will be heavier.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

OP wants Hypalon not PVC... unfortunately, I haven't found a cat dinghy in hypalon.

We sold our RIB a few years ago and replaced it with a high pressure air floor WalkerBay 310 so we could store it below deck when offshore. Having sailed with the RIB on deck of our 34' Sabre across the Atlantic, I didn't want to be forced to do that again with the new boat.

The high pressure floor is incredible solid when properly inflated, but the other issues posted above are true; sand and water in the boat requires pulling the air floor out, the pvc floor does degrad with UV exposure and gasoline, and you have to be careful what you put in the dinghy isn't sharp.

I really like the air floor so far for weight, storage and cost. But, having said that.... we'll go back to a RIB if we get to the point that we are no longer doing longer offshore passages (or bigger boat)

Matt

You may have tried this but if you deflate a RIB and fold the tubes under the hull it takes a very small foot print on the foredeck when crossing oceans. You do need to have some dedicated hard points in the deck, I used folding wichard D rings and some good straps with tensioning to make it rock solid. It allowed me the room I needed on the foredeck and could safely ride out any weather we had to deal with.

[akprb]

Will not plane with a 6hp and two people.

Just the sad truth :-(

[goat]

If you get an Achilles high pressure inflatable floor model like I have i would recommend carrying a board (hatch board etc.) when fishing. Especially with spikey fish such as grouper and snapper. Guess how I figured that out?

goat

[rendern]

My wood slat floor inflatable gave up the ghost 3-4 years ago and I replaced with a 9.5ft Hi Pressure inflatable floor Achilles. The 4HP (2-stroke) outboard that I had got my wife and I up on plane the first time we used the Achilles. I was thrilled. I can lift it up and over the rail at the bow by myself for storage after removing the outboard. My inflatable keel and floor have both developed slow leaks, but it hasn't been a problem. I will patch them or have them serviced at the Achilles dealer in Annapolis. I have since upgraded to 8HP (2-stroke) and the dinghy is absolutely fast. Big fan of the HP floor Achilles.
-Norm

[Chuck Hawley]

I was involved with the marketing and development of inflatable boats for about 15 years while working at West Marine, including products sources from Wales, France, New Zealand, China, and Taiwan. Due to the improvements in Asian factories and the use of better fabrics, the Asian boats made enormous progress in that time.

The biggest advantage of inflatable floor boats is that you can get a longer boat for a given mothership compared to a RIB. We used to offer a 3.4m inflatable floor boat that would plane with 6hp, and was a rocket with 10hp, that would not have been possible to store on most cruising boats had it been a RIB. The durability of the floor is a concern (no fishing hooks or high heels, please), but I found them to be very seaworthy and high performance. You must inflate both the floor and the tubes sufficiently (about 11psi for the floor and 3 psi for the tubes) to get sufficient stiffness.

RIBs will be more durable and will handle chop better. They are 50% to 100% heavier, and will handle larger outboards more easily. They are obviously better for beaching and banging around. Most cruisers sort of max out with a 3.1m boat (a little over 10') which will plane with two people, and possibly three.

With all inflatable boats, length matters. It's hard to imagine the difference that it makes going from 2.8m to 3.1m, and from 3.1m to 3.4m. The 11' inflatable is just a much better boat than anything smaller, but difficult to fit on most of our boats.

Cheers,

Chuck

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

You didn’t ask, so I won’t babble too much, but a portabote might suit your needs. Problem would be storage on your 25’ mothership, but it might be possible.

My 10’ bote will easily plane with one person using our 3.5 hp engine. I can plane with two adults in flat conditions. Botes are a hybrid, having some of the characteristics of inflatables and hard dinks (and some unique draw backs ).

https://www.porta-bote.com/

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by Chuck Hawley

The biggest advantage of inflatable floor boats is that you can get a longer boat for a given mothership compared to a RIB. We used to offer a 3.4m inflatable floor boat that would plane with 6hp, and was a rocket with 10hp, that would not have been possible to store on most cruising boats had it been a RIB. The durability of the floor is a concern (no fishing hooks or high heels, please), but I found them to be very seaworthy and high performance. You must inflate both the floor and the tubes sufficiently (about 11psi for the floor and 3 psi for the tubes) to get sufficient stiffness.

RIBs will be more durable and will handle chop better. They are 50% to 100% heavier, and will handle larger outboards more easily. They are obviously better for beaching and banging around. Most cruisers sort of max out with a 3.1m boat (a little over 10') which will plane with two people, and possibly three.

With all inflatable boats, length matters. It's hard to imagine the difference that it makes going from 2.8m to 3.1m, and from 3.1m to 3.4m. The 11' inflatable is just a much better boat than anything smaller, but difficult to fit on most of our boats.

Chuck points out some good differences between them. There is also a third (and fourth) option. I am a big fan of hard dinghies, although with anything in life, there are compromises. As Chuck points out, RIBs are HEAVY, especially the ones with a double hull. Even the small ones are heavy. The ability to fold up an inflatable dinghy into what is essentially a large duffle bag is great. The down side is the wear when hauling it onto a beach, especially one with shells and rocks. What are the beaches like where you are? Will you only be tying up to docks and sea walls or will you be hauling it onto a beach?

Hard dinghies are often lighter than RIBs and don't care about the beach. The down side is of course that they don't collapse (unless you do an exceptionally poor job of taking care of it). They are a lot more durable than RIBs and inflatables. They usually row better and they certainly look better.

A collapsible boat as Mike earlier suggest also has the advantages of a hard dinghy but better storage than any except the pure inflatable.

Is the dinghy for just you or do you plan on carrying others, pets and/or supplies? I have a few friends who use kayaks as a dinghy. This allows them to quickly paddle around without the need for a motor (they do sell small motors for kayaks though). They use them when they are alone.

Another important question is how big is your boat and where will you use it?

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by Jammer

So, high-pressure air floors make for a lighter boat and allow deflated stowage in a smaller space; some claim that a smaller outboard can be used due to the lighter weight.

The usual drawbacks cited (compared to an aluminum RIB) are lack of durability and lack of rigidity.

How does this work out in practice? Air the air floors good enough?

They aren’t lighter at all. For example the RibEye TL260 with aluminium hull is lighter than my Excel SD260 with air floor

[Factor]

TAKACAT - Job Done

[Jammer]

Thank you all for the advice.

I'm still trying to work out what tenders, if any, will plane with a 6 HP motor that is correctly propped, with two people and gear.

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

What are the beaches like where you are? Will you only be tying up to docks and sea walls or will you be hauling it onto a beach?

I'm not sure.

Locally we have, for the most part, extremely large rocks and sheer surfaces that preclude beaching. Or silty mud with lots of vegetation. Last time I was fishing on Lake of the Woods we had a couple of 18'-ish fishing boats. We stopped for lunch. I climbed up onto a rock from the bow with a line, balance of the party got out the same way, and we tied the boats up leaving them afloat.

Hard dinghies are often lighter than RIBs and don't care about the beach. The down side is of course that they don't collapse (unless you do an exceptionally poor job of taking care of it). They are a lot more durable than RIBs and inflatables. They usually row better and they certainly look better.

A collapsible boat as Mike earlier suggest also has the advantages of a hard dinghy but better storage than any except the pure inflatable.

I don't think I have room.

The reason for the thread is that I'm trying to figure out if I'll be happy over the long term with an air floor. If not, I'll get something inexpensive for now -- smaller, perhaps less durable -- with the idea that I'll replace it when I have a larger sailboat and room for a rib.

Is the dinghy for just you or do you plan on carrying others, pets and/or supplies? I have a few friends who use kayaks as a dinghy. This allows them to quickly paddle around without the need for a motor (they do sell small motors for kayaks though). They use them when they are alone.

I have to be able to ferry others and supplies, if only occasionally. My kids and I scuba dive. I like to fish. Sometimes I fish from my canoe. Sometimes I scuba dive from my canoe. I would probably choose a kayak over a canoe, because I already have canoes, and like them. But their performance in chop is marginal.

Another important question is how big is your boat and where will you use it?

My boat is 25'. This year we'll be on the Mississippi (and the St. Croix River and Minnesota River that join it) and Lake Superior, with future travels taking us to other large inland lakes (particularly Vermilion and Lake of the Woods), then a trip through the Great Lakes to the Trent-Severn Waterway, Rideau Canal, and other inland rivers where a shallow draft and mast tabernacle are a significant asset. After that, assuming I'm still sailing, I'll get a larger boat.

Some people would make that journey without a dinghy, but it doesn't seem wise. For example, while on Lake Superior, we will visit the Apostle Islands. Though there are some docks, the local advice is to anchor out as the docks are very much exposed to weather and may be taken by other vessels when we need them.

[willk]

The folding RIB might be worth a thought:

F-RIB | Revolutionary new Foldable RIBs (F-RIBs)

I know a man running one with a 6hp - he gets very good performance one up with camping gear for 4 days. Pricey and not going in a locker - might stow forward?