Boat Bikes II

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Don’t you come back to the US at times?

Once a year maybe. And certainly not during this plague.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Brompton is only one size frame, and only one frame choice if I’m not mistaken?

That's right. And the Bike Friday will be custom cut to your measurements.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by mlydon

Guys - those numbers you're throwing around are INSANE! There's got to be a better way than throwing $2-4K down on a single bicycle.

I have a couple of old Dahon Mariners that I think I paid a grand total of $300 for used, that work just fine.

Is one of these works of art you're talking about really worth that kind of money?

Matt

Depends on what you want and whether or not your a bicyclist or not etc.
I left two new mariners in storage, sat them beside of the URB-E’s. The Dahons are mass produced overweight bikes, just above Huffy in quality, and we are back to the other half doesn’t want to ride she had rather walk.
But what did the a Mariner’s in for me is their weight. They are about 27 lbs or so, and that’s heavy when compared to a 20 lb bike when hoisting it up the typical 8’ ladder that’s at seemingly every dinghy dock in the Bahama’s.
I know why they build the docks so high off of the water, that way they survive storms, but you would think they would lean out just a little angle on the ladders.
A sub 20 lb or a 20 lb bike that will fit on your back sounds good for one of those ladders, that way you could climb it.

A new Lightspeed Ultimate with a Dura Ace gruppo is over $8,000 I believe, so it depends on what you want out of a bike, and what you are used to.

[Quebramar]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Then you want the smallest, lightest “real” bicycle there is, I say real as there are tiny little things out there that use I believe roller blade wheels or similar, and they aren’t suitable.
Now I have not ridden or even seen a Pakit, but it doesn’t seem to be difficult to fold, no tools required, but the backpack seems large for a backpack.
However the 8sp hub seems to weigh 1.7 kg all by itself, that’s almost 4 lbs, does it really need to be that heavy?
May sound stupid but a single speed belt drive and I’d even want a coaster brake as no brake cable to rust internally. Lots lighter, simpler and I’d miss gears, maybe depending on terrain, but as my trips are actually short distance I think it would be fine.
...
But anyway, in my opinion chains are a bust, derailleurs are a bust for a boat bike, there is no real honest SS chain or I can’t find one if there is, and deraiullers are too fragile. Then of course there are all the cables ,four in total that aren’t in my opinion absolutely necessary.

With similar needs and thoughts in mind, I found a used Strida, quite a special design. Plusses are belt and weight (9kg) with 16’ wheels, just perfect to go shopping and to store in the cockpit locker. Definitely not for a 20km ride across the countryside (1-gear, not fully comfy) but so convenient, esp to carry in my small dinghy when on the hook. Sells around €1000, got it for €300 in perfect shape.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Never seen a folder like that.

The Bike Friday Pakit can be ordered with the 8 speed Shimano Alfina hub and Gates carbon belt drive.

The belt drive is the business for a boat bike -- imagine how nice that would be. But the belt drive alone adds nearly $800 (!) to the price of the Pakit compared to just the 8 speed hub, for total of $2700 with racks and fenders and backpack (A64 is right - my earlier figure was wrong, which was my guess POST duty, shipping, VAT).

Woof! That's bug bucks for a toy (which is what it would be, for us).

I don't even care about the folder option, but I get why most do...

-Chris

[carlosproa]

Why spend so much?

http://www.citizenbike.com/catalog.a...iABEgLIr_D_BwE

[Idlegreg]

Dockhead I know, I know!! I also love my Jetstream (Not an EX but it was 2nd hand and only £350). I think I have as much fun riding it as anything else since my childhood. Compared to the Brompton I borrowed to try on the boat it is a real joy to ride.....But


A curse to fold and stow - the Brompton is not only smaller but the folding sequence means there is no stage where you are trying to hold the bike from falling over while also folding it. And as you know the Brompton puts the chain inside the package while our Jetstreams don't. So I very rarely take the bike on the boat - it mainly benifts me as I can put it in the back of my camper out of sight.



So my Dream is a Jetstream with Brompton fold. But so far I have not seen it.



I realise none of the above is any use.


Have you seen this option ..... https://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/fo...n-8-speed-kit/
Or fit the SA 8 Speed yourself.


I looked at this properly when I was choosing sometime ago - if I recall it still needs the Brompton chain tensioner but is less vunerable than the Deraillier we have. 8 Gears should be quite a bit cheaper and I suppose lighter than the Rohloff.



You can of course get some Titanium bits for the Brompton so the weight is not crazy but if you fit it out with a rack, mudguards, lights etc it will get a bit heavy.


I kind of gave up on making my Jetstream pack light and have recently added a SRAM DD3 to get lower gears.



I did make it a custom tailored bag that keeps it as small as possible and that does help with carting it around. I have managed to use it with modified trailer to carry gear out to the boat in France by Ferry and Train. The Bike is in the Blue bag which I strap on top of wheeled bag that converts to trailer.

[250224]

Originally Posted by carlosproa

Why spend so much?

TOKYO Citizen Bike 16" 6-speed Folding Bike with Ultra-Portable Frame

Because I don't think Citizen Bikes (or any other low price bikes) are very good. --

There were some interesting links here but nothing comes close to a Brompton imo. If you fancy a Friday Pakit then there are lightweight Bromptons too: https://www.brompton.com/brompton-gb...24/c-77/p-8678 (9.6 kg - wouldn't buy this myself though).

I had a normal Brompton (~13.6 kg). Was super happy with it, very compact when folded!!! Easy handling (it carries like a luggage piece when folded). The wheels are small but I had no problems when doing trips (about 20, 30 km max), it's certainly no BMC road bike, but was perfectly adequate for my usage.

Don't understand how any one would sail a fine boat and then go with a substandard* bike...?

*: which from my pov is anything other than a Brompton

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

What’s the consensus on the Carbo X? This is the one I’ve had my eye on for a while. Carbon fibre frame for lightness, belt drive to avoid oil going everywhere down below, seems to tick all the boxes for boat use:

https://ridecarbo.com/products/carbo...31309818953791

I was about to order this before everything hit the fan, and still might when things change...

I reckon that's a pretty cool bike!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by blu3534

. . .

There were some interesting links here but nothing comes close to a Brompton imo. If you fancy a Friday Pakit then there are lightweight Bromptons too: https://www.brompton.com/brompton-gb...24/c-77/p-8678 (9.6 kg - wouldn't buy this myself though).

I had a normal Brompton (~13.6 kg). Was super happy with it, very compact when folded!!! Easy handling (it carries like a luggage piece when folded). The wheels are small but I had no problems when doing trips (about 20, 30 km max), it's certainly no BMC road bike, but was perfectly adequate for my usage.

Don't understand how any one would sail a fine boat and then go with a substandard* bike...?

*: which from my pov is anything other than a Brompton

Anything other than a Brommie is "substandard"? The only thing the Brommie even arguably is superior than all others is the fold. It's certainly worse in every other way compared to the much more expensive, high spec, custom cut Pakit, as you would expect (or Bike Friday wouldn't sell any bikes) -- weight is the least of the Pakit advantages over a Brommie. The Brommie rides far worse than my Jetstream.



I think the Brommie MAY be still at the top of my list -- but not because it is so utterly awesome, but only because it is relatively cheap and easily available and has the perfect fold. Otherwise, I think, the Pakit -- but I'm balking at the cost and the long lead time for custom building.



No one has commented on the Dahon Curve, with the imitation Brommie fold. It looks intriguing, although it is also expensive and seems to be hard to find.

[Breaking Waves]

I know this is not what DH wants (he wants folding), but if I were doing a boat bike I would get a tarmac (or Émonda) frameset, sram axs 1x drive train, with thru axles/disk brakes, with waxed KMC Ti chain - would be under 6kg, would be very light, quite small with good bags available with the wheels off, mechanically pretty simple and pretty clean (no chain grease) and rust proof, and ride like a dream.

[a64pilot]

Why disk brakes?
Ridiculous as this may sound but I’d want a three sp belt drive, with a coaster brake.
3 sp for weight and cost and coaster brake cause they work and have no cables etc/
I would need a folder to fit everywhere, I found out through experience that leaving one on deck isn’t an option, not if you want it last.
Maybe if you cruise the ICW but any offshore use and on deck isn’t viable.
But back to folder, it needs to be small and lightweight to get it up that ladder at the dinghy dock.
You can do a line of course and hoist it up, but at some point it becomes more work and a pain than it’s worth, just walk or rent transportation.

[a64pilot]

Doc,
Have you spoken to Bike Friday about expediting an order? Maybe not now with the virus, but I suspect that they could or would, there is some rumor that they are in financial trouble.
Gut says that soon after they return to work there may not be a backlog of orders to fill
It’s rumor and you know how those are.
Lately they have been selling a whole lot of used bikes, what’s the source of these bikes I have no idea, maybe trade ins and over time they just accumulated and now they have decided to sell them I guess.

The thing about a Brommie is it’s one frame choice and one size.
Until you have ridden a custom frame that was built to your measurements you don’t realize how much of a compromise a one size fits all frame is.
US Army measured every part of me, they did for all the first Apache pilots to determine what the average was for human factors design, anyway I’m so 50 percentile or was that it’s not funny, and even me as a 50 percentile person a custom frame over a Century had my back feeling so much better.
Yes I know you can change the stem etc, but it’s not at all the same as a custom build.
There used to be “fit kits” at better bike shops that were used to measure you specifically.
A guy named Eddy Merckx measured me in Frankfurt I think. I didn’t know who he was until about half way though, it’s an easy thing to have done.
I assume fit kits still exist or there is something maybe better.

On edit, they still exist
https://fitkitsystems.com/bike-sizin...it-kit-system/

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Why disk brakes?

all my bikes are disk now - terrific 2 finger braking especially when wet, and mechanically quite simple with extremely infrequent adjustment. Disks are clearly the future for road bikes.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by mlydon

Guys - those numbers you're throwing around are INSANE! There's got to be a better way than throwing $2-4K down on a single bicycle.

I have a couple of old Dahon Mariners that I think I paid a grand total of $300 for used, that work just fine.

Is one of these works of art you're talking about really worth that kind of money?

I currently don't have a Brompton sized budget... but I would definitely consider one if I was full-time cruising or RVing... or was 25 years younger and taking the train around Europe.

Good bikes are delightful. I laid out $600 for a nice road bike in the early 80s, and I got a great deal on a $1000 mountain bike in the 90s. Both were mid-market, as far as "good" bikes go, but the quality and ride were significantly better than dept-store bikes. (and with maintenance, they last! I still have those)

Last year, I bought a mostly aluminum K-Rock folding bike on sale for $230. It took a bit of work to adjust it properly, and I added a rear rack to it. I got it soaking one day so I had to repack the wheel and bottom bracket bearings, and that was a nice improvement. Now... it's not bad! I was riding it to the train station and bringing it with me downtown, but one afternoon when the trains were down I rode it 16km home wih no problems. It is around 27 pounds though. There's some steel componentry that could be replaced.

So, it is rewarding to own and ride a very good bike... but you can also get by with a lesser bike and some effort/compromises. With cheaper folding bikes, the biggest compromises are weight and folding.