Binoculars Again -- 7x30 vs 7x50

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

......

US Military uses Steriner 7x50’s for its scouts and has for decades, how long I don’t know.

I thought they were now using Fujinon M22s....
I believe they are based on the Nautilus but with the laser filters which cuts light transmission by 10% or so.
Optics from Fujinon , finished in the US.... mine have Kama-Tech on one end of the hinge, M22 Northrop Grumman on the other end.

Nice enough bins...

I think that some companies make only top end kit... Zeiss, Swarovski...

Other companies such as Nikon, Steiner, Fuji make everything from budget to top of the line... with Nikon there is a big quality gap between , f'rinstance Nikon Aculon 10x42s ( $96 from B&H) and Nikon Monarch 7 10x42s ($996 from the same dealer) ...

(I use my Monarch7 10x42s both afloat and ashore.. excellent for doing rig inspections from the cockpit.......)

Steiner 7x -from the same people- run from $300 to $2500.... bound to be a difference in quality....

Meanwhile... 7x30 with compass don't seem to exist.. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ation_156%3A7x

[Reefmagnet]

I don't know if i have bad eyes or whatever, but just two nights ago I was testing my old Steiner ex military 8x30 binos against my top of the line Fuji 7x50's. It was overcast with a new moon in the anchorage with no other light sources than other vessels and my conclusion was that the difference between the 8x30s was minimal compared to the 7x50s for although the 7x50s have the light gathering, the 8x30s make up for most of that with the additional magnification.

Now i know 7x is the sweet spot for marine binos, but i much prefer the small size and light weight of the Steiner's, and have not found the additional magnification to be an issue. As such, these are always at the ready in the cockpit whereas the Fuji 's only get brought out on special ocasions.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Jammer

. . .The 7x30 porro prisim binocs you are considering will be somewhat heavier and bulkier than pentaprism 8x32s. The compass versions would add some additional bulk. I would assume better optical quality but am unsure how eye relief and field of view would be affected.

I am specifically interested in the Steiner Commander 7x30C. Apparently not made any more, but I can probably find a used paid.


https://www.opticsplanet.com/v/396-k...atch%20-%20All

[El Pinguino]

They don't seem to have been out of production for too long.... new ones still out there..
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Steiner-...gAAOSw5HZeYR1w

Also the same thing in 'Navigator'.... presumably lesser optics or construction...
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Steiner-...CFQFnKJcb3bOAg

[El Pinguino]

Just as I suspected...
https://opticsoasis.com/steiner-navi...anders-masses/

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Just as I suspected...
https://opticsoasis.com/steiner-navi...anders-masses/

That's interesting -- suggests that the Navigators are more or less as good as the Commanders. Can anyone confirm that?

[ranger58sb]

Dockhead, we have both the 7x50 Commander XP and the 7x30 Navigator Pro... each with compass. Both very good.

I use the larger, and wifey used the smaller until we "upgraded" her eyes to a compact Fuji stabilized binoc.

The smaller model is a very comfortable size, easy to handle, weighs about the same (guessing, here) as an older 7x30 Redfield roof prism binoc I usually used for hunting... but now I'm free to use the Navigator model for that instead. For me, the center focus Redfield is decent glass but constant re-focusing has always been a pain in the neck, whereas the always-in-focus Steiner is much better.

Jedi mentioned his warranty issue in another thread, and I have to say that was surprising to me given we've had warranty replacements or updates that worked well for us. OTOH, maybe that just had to do with the importer... Got my first 7x50s in Germany, circa '83... and they fogged in the U.S. circa I dunno when but probably mid-'90s, well after warranty. I shipped them to the importer at the time for service, they instead replaced the binoc... no charge. Then that one started fogging in late 2009, ditto out of warranty, and the new importer offered me decent replacement prices on a new unit... so that's when I sprung for both a replacement 7x50 and also the ride-along 7x30s. IIRC, total replacement cost was approx half of the normal 7x50 retail, something like that.

-Chris

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Dockhead, we have both the 7x50 Commander XP and the 7x30 Navigator Pro... each with compass. Both very good.

I use the larger, and wifey used the smaller until we "upgraded" her eyes to a compact Fuji stabilized binoc.

The smaller model is a very comfortable size, easy to handle, weighs about the same (guessing, here) as an older 7x30 Redfield roof prism binoc I usually used for hunting... but now I'm free to use the Navigator model for that instead. For me, the center focus Redfield is decent glass but constant re-focusing has always been a pain in the neck, whereas the always-in-focus Steiner is much better.

Jedi mentioned his warranty issue in another thread, and I have to say that was surprising to me given we've had warranty replacements or updates that worked well for us. OTOH, maybe that just had to do with the importer... Got my first 7x50s in Germany, circa '83... and they fogged in the U.S. circa I dunno when but probably mid-'90s, well after warranty. I shipped them to the importer at the time for service, they instead replaced the binoc... no charge. Then that one started fogging in late 2009, ditto out of warranty, and the new importer offered me decent replacement prices on a new unit... so that's when I sprung for both a replacement 7x50 and also the ride-along 7x30s. IIRC, total replacement cost was approx half of the normal 7x50 retail, something like that.

-Chris

Hey, that's fantastic information, thanks.


All that fogging doesn't sound good -- my Meibos are 50 years old, have covered surely 100,000 miles on the ocean, are battered, and still crystal clear and optically perfect, making astonishingly beautiful images. But I guess Fuji is in its own class there.


I'm looking at Steiners purely because of the much better form factor, compared to the clunky Polaris.


Is there a noticeable difference in quality of optics between the Navigator and Commander? Build quality?


Do you miss the light gathering power of the 7x50's, when you use the 7x30's?


Which ones do you use most?

[sepharad]

Dockhead,

I have the Steiner Navigator Pro 7x50 C's. I have to admit that I love them. It would not be fair to compare them to the ancient Japanese wrecks I had in 7x30, but the (objective) view (beyond clarity and light, I find nicer. I have no problem finding an object with the 50's.

I don't know if you sail alone or not, but if you have a sailing partner or guest, a second set of eyes is nice.

I LOVE having my compass in the binoculars. It works well for me and I have no problem using both together with strange optical issues.

If I could have ONE set only, I would want the 50's with a compass, but that is only my personal preference.

I have heard people complain...well about everything, but i like mine. I bought them for $361 from an online business in Italy named Mareshop Terranova SRL located in Rimini.

[dadster3]

Don't overthink this. Steiners are the gold standard and the commander model is priced accordingly. Steiner used to make a nice pair of binos for West Marine, but I don't know if they still do. I would have bought a pair but none of the West Marine stores seem to carry them in stock. I ended up buying Weems & Plath Explorer with light and compass. They aren't cheap, but much less than Steiners. I think I paid about $289 at the boat show">Annapolis Boat Show last Fall.

[Gaia]

I see no mention of the benefit of stabilised binocs. We bought the Fujinon Tecno Stab 14X40 a number of years ago and like them a lot both for use on board and in the field for wildlife.

Jim sv Gaia

[Martkimwat]

I use 7x30s but they are Canon image stabilised. I understand that it is not just the light gathering ability that makes 7x50 the standard choice for boating but also the field of view on an unstable deck. That being said, I also have a pair of French Bynolyt 8x28 binoculars that are incredibly good at sea, probably because they are so small and light, they are easy to cup in one hand and steady against your face, cutting down on image blurring. I guess if you pay enough for a really good light weight and small 7 x30s, you would be fine. The Bynolyts were not much cheaper than the Canon image stabilised bins. for compass bearings of distant objects I use a monocular with a Compass built in. (can't remember the name but I think they are 7x30.) and you can stuff that the Bynolyts in your pocket.

[Ted and Relinda]

I obtained a pair of Steiner 10x50 many years ago for work. Still have them and still like them. I also have a pair of fugis and only use them if I need a bearing ref.

Ted.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Martkimwat

I use 7x30s but they are Canon image stabilised. I understand that it is not just the light gathering ability that makes 7x50 the standard choice for boating but also the field of view on an unstable deck. That being said, I also have a pair of French Bynolyt 8x28 binoculars that are incredibly good at sea, probably because they are so small and light, they are easy to cup in one hand and steady against your face, cutting down on image blurring. I guess if you pay enough for a really good light weight and small 7 x30s, you would be fine. The Bynolyts were not much cheaper than the Canon image stabilised bins. for compass bearings of distant objects I use a monocular with a Compass built in. (can't remember the name but I think they are 7x30.) and you can stuff that the Bynolyts in your pocket.

I have some Leica Trinovids similar to your Bynolyts. 8x24's I think they are, or maybe 8x20. They fit in my pocket easily and I like them, a lot but the apertures are so small that I find them hard to use in a seaway. I use them in very calm weather or, especially, on land during shore excursions. I think that backs up your point about field of view. In a seaway, my Meibos are much easier to use despite their bulk.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

All that fogging doesn't sound good -- my Meibos are 50 years old, have covered surely 100,000 miles on the ocean, are battered, and still crystal clear and optically perfect, making astonishingly beautiful images. But I guess Fuji is in its own class there.

Is there a noticeable difference in quality of optics between the Navigator and Commander? Build quality?

Do you miss the light gathering power of the 7x50's, when you use the 7x30's?

Which ones do you use most?

I eventually traced the fogging problem to probably my fault (duh!), from often leaving the glasses in the truck... below zero degrees... over ninety degrees... whatever... and apparently 20 years or so of doing that isn't perfect.

I see no difference in build quality between the two models.

I almost never used the 7x30s... those were specifically for wifey when on board... so can't distinguish about light gathering differences. Mathematically -- from lens sizes -- the 7x50s are better... and indeed they're very, very good... but I dunno about the 7x30s.

I'll be using the 7x30s on a hunt this year, so I'll get more familiar with 'em then. They don't weight much different from the 7x30 Redfield porro models, though, and always-in-focus will definitely be better that those (otherwise decent glass, for a 30-year-old inexpensive binoc).

-Chris