Attaching a Jordan Series Drogue.. How?

[Scare_Rab]

photo of the stern of my steel yacht attached.
Those twin stainless bollards look plenty strong to me.
My thinking : Splice eyes in the end of 16mm Doublebraid, 2+1/2 times the width of my stern. When deployed, these eyes would be slipped over the stainless bollards and led out through those half-round /oval fairleads. Would have 2x plastic tubes slipped over the bridle where it crosses the fair lead as anti chafe.
I do wonder about simply leading the bridle directly over the stern, a more direct & thus less chafe path, but worry about sawing/chafe against the pushpit as the stern yaws / pitches / rolls.
what think us?
questions / comments / suggestions welcomed
( I also wonder if this ought not have been a " new thread " , but rather ' tacked on to the end of the ' Drogue thread from June ' ..?? )

[HopCar]

Either way you lead the rope, you will have to deal with chafe.

I think plastic tube is not the best anti-chafe sleeve.

I've read that you want to use something that will allow water to soak through and lubricate the rope fibers.

I sell a polyester woven tube that you slide over the rope and heat shrink it in place. There are also several heavy fabric chafe guards that Velcro in place and can be repositioned.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Scare_Rab

what think us?
questions / comments / suggestions welcomed

What about a couple of short steel wire rope strops to get from the bollard round the fairlead then shackled into the rope bridle leg. ? Big soft eye for the bollard end and any old eye at the other, galv would be OK as it will likely never be used (you hope ) so shouldn't cost much. And would allow changes to the bridle legs by daisy chaining shackles for a hint of steering control should the need ever arise.

[Snowpetrel]

Hey Rab, what type of drogue is it? Series or other. Makes a big difference to the setup.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Hey Rab, what type of drogue is it? Series or other. Makes a big difference to the setup.

Have a look at the thread title,....

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by conachair

Have a look at the thread title,....

Duh.. Thanks. Thats what happens when your typing on the go!

[Orchidius]

No amount of (plastic) tubing will withstand the chafe you'll be looking at during a worst case scenario storm laying behind your JSD.

The idea with the steel wire makes most sense if you intend on using the cleats. But whatever way you go about it, take a good look at the design loads on the JSD website. This is of course the worst case breaking wave strike, but imagine similar loads hammering the rig every wave that comes along for hours and hours and hours on end. Check the cleats for proper backing plates, check the deck for structural integrity, check everything for the maximum design loads of your JSD.

Personally on my steel yacht, I'm drilling a hole in the toerail, and using big shackles to attach the bridle legs to the holes. This way, no chafe is possible, and the hull itself is used to dissipate the load. Then I'm using steel wire to attach the shackles to the samson post on the stern (this goes through the deck, and is seated on the ribs and welded there as well as to the deck).

I made my JSD myself, so in the light of the chore it has been to make the whole thing, making sure the attachment points are solid is only a little bit extra work. And to be honest, it's the most important imo. I'd rather have half my cones fail then one bridle attachment point.

[JPA Cate]

Have you considered taking the bridle to the primary winches? If you want to have that kind of control over it, then you might consider making the bridle out of Dyneema, or an equivalent type of line.

Ann

[Orchidius]

Don Jordan specifically advised against that Ann.

[estarzinger]

You have a metal boat . . . . simply weld two big (stainless steel) tangs to either corner of the transom - simple, strong, cheap and no chafe.

You have a lot going on that transom, and there is really no fair lead aft, and chafe can be fierce on a drogue.

I am not a big fan of wire leads - they are unpleasant to handle, can saw/cut thru stuff (including say a hand) accidentally, and actually are not all that strong especially when going round a bend (they bend fatigue and then will strand).

Dyneema in the bridle is a better suggestion (IMHO) than wire. The series drogue does not have the same frequency of shock loading that a single element drogue has, so the lack of elasticity is not too bad an issue.

As to the use of winches as a base for the bridle . . . . it's simply a matter of how well/strongly they are mounted/constructed. They are fine if they are up to the max expected loads and they do make recovery easier if at least one end of the bridle is ended on one . . . . but a lot of winches (especially on wood or plastic boats) are not mounted strongly enough for the very high possible breaking wave loads. I often use the winches when setting the drogues 'for comfort' in relatively mild gale/light storm conditions, but would set it from transom tangs if expecting any possibility of 'survival' sort of conditions (eg big breaking waves).

[Snowpetrel]

The bollards aft look strong enough, but the fairleads don't, Saying that I haven't used a series drogue so don't have a feel for the loads...

My 2c, If you can't weld something on at Port Douglas like Evans suggests, wait till you get further south where it may be easier to get the work done. you aren't going to need the JSD inside the reef. If you can't get something welded. Just bolt on a strong stainless or galvanised plate as per Jordans specs and sort it out back in NZ.

[LakeSuperior]

We installed "closed fairleads" on the stern corners and planned on running the ends of the bridle to the stern cleats. The thought was we could periodically adjust the bridle if it started to chafe by letting out a little bit at a time. We also had heavy leather chafe guards that we would install on deployment.

The closed fairleads would prevent the bridle from interfering with the stern pulpit and any other claptrap that was close to the stern. That is the bridle would be captured and could not come out of the fairleads when the boat was pitching. The fairleads were hard to find. Bought two bronze and had them chromed.

We felt that this install was a good compromise between utility and looks on a Mason 44.

[estarzinger]

Just FYI . . . . here is a pic of one of the tangs on our transom - they are welding into both ring frames and longitudes and designed to each take the vessels displacement. I have used them very infrequently (perhaps twice?), because as I mentioned above in a garden variety strong gale we take the bridle to the primary winches - which on Hawk also have a fair lead directly back over the transom - because the winches are mounted quite far aft (so the helmsman can trim the jib).