Achilles vs Highfield rib

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

The problem with this endorsement and with the several other long life stories is that the current production, even in the same brand, may well not be to the same standards.

This is certainly true of Zodiac... we had an old grey hypalon Zodiac that lasted around 15 years of full time usage in teh tropics. Good luck with their current stuff (as several others have noted).

And Avon... well, IIRC they are now owned by Zodiac, and the wonderful quality of old Avons is now history.

A pity, but a reality of modern marketing and business practice.

Jim

How true! Yes, I am aware that Avon was purchased some years ago by Zodiac and I should have strongly mentioned that in my thread. So Avon today? I don't know

[misfits]

There is a 20 pound weight difference between LSI 290 & LSR 290, LSR is heavier.
The issue with the aluminum floor hinges, makes sense.
I have a hard dingy, rows like a dream but is not very stable getting into the sailboat so that's why I'm going the inflatable route.
Far as an engine, I have a 2HP Yamaha that I've owned since late 80's.

I've only got a 28' boat so deck space to lash a dingy is limited. I'm getting old so weight is also a consideration. I've purchased a Achilles LS4-RU. It weighs 66 pounds, rolls right up so I can store it on the deck or down below if need be. The best part it's only $100.00 more than the pvc zodiac everyone convinced me not to buy. My wife is happy about that

Thanks for the sound advice, I appreciate it.

[SV Mischief]

Originally Posted by Vasco

Highfield has a ten year warranty. There's a long thread on dinks I started about three years ago when I got the Highfield. Make sure the Achilles has a flat floor. Nothing worse than a dink with a V floor when you're carrying jugs and stuff. Highfield is thought out very well, good lifting points, seat, locker etc. Make sure it's hypalon as they also make a pvc one. I think the warranty was five years when I bought mine and if you regidtered it on their website it went up to ten. I know I have a ten year warranty.

Does anyone know the weight of the Highfield FCT console for the CL 340/360? Any recommendations for/against, especially when the dinghy will be lifted on davits?

[KD8NPB]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

And Avon... well, IIRC they are now owned by Zodiac, and the wonderful quality of old Avons is now history.

I disagree.

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by KD8NPB

I disagree.

OH! Are the new Avons constructed the same way the old ones were? Do the new ones found in the size of my old 10.3RIB feature a bilge, small though it is to keep one's feet dry?

If they are so good, why do we not read more about the newer, better (like soap) Avon?

[KD8NPB]

Originally Posted by foggysail

OH! Are the new Avons constructed the same way the old ones were? Do the new ones found in the size of my old 10.3RIB feature a bilge, small though it is to keep one's feet dry?

If they are so good, why do we not read more about the newer, better (like soap) Avon?

No small Avon tenders exist as of 2018. The market currently prefers price over quality for that particular range, so it was simply discontinued altogether.

The only Avon ranges in manufacture currently are the "Seasport Deluxe" series and the "Grand Tender" series. ; https://www.avonmarine.com/our-tenders/

I can personally vouch that the quality of the materials in the "Seasport Deluxe" is excellent. All synthetic construction (no wood), premium isophtalic pre-promoted thixotropic laminating resin, and isophtalic grafted polymer gelcoat. High shear isophthalic urethane acrylate adhesive is used for hull/deck/stringer bonding.

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by KD8NPB

No small Avon tenders exist as of 2018. The market currently prefers price over quality for that particular range, so it was simply discontinued altogether.

The only Avon ranges in manufacture currently are the "Seasport Deluxe" series and the "Grand Tender" series. ; https://www.avonmarine.com/our-tenders/

I can personally vouch that the quality of the materials in the "Seasport Deluxe" is excellent. All synthetic construction (no wood), premium isophtalic pre-promoted thixotropic laminating resin, and isophtalic grafted polymer gelcoat. High shear isophthalic urethane acrylate adhesive is used for hull/deck/stringer bonding.

OK, size matters and I understand why a manufacturer would seek out a maximum return for his product. You didn't state the fabric type nor expected life or maybe you did and I didn't understand it. And an extension of my earlier post pertaining to bilges. Do these "new & improved" models provide for user comforts with a small bilge to keep the user's feet dry?

And thanks for sharing your dinghy knowledge--

[KD8NPB]

Originally Posted by foggysail

OK, size matters and I understand why a manufacturer would seek out a maximum return for his product. You didn't state the fabric type nor expected life or maybe you did and I didn't understand it. And an extension of my earlier post pertaining to bilges. Do these "new & improved" models provide for user comforts with a small bilge to keep the user's feet dry?

And thanks for sharing your dinghy knowledge--

Seasport Deluxe uses Achilles CSM/CR material
Grand Tender uses Pennel & Flipo Orca CSM/CR material

Design basis, product should exceed >20 years for the average end user, although mildew and degradation will obviously make the product look "used", but should remain highly functional.

All models have self bailing decks with bilge pumps.

[Boatguy30]

I'm really looking hard at that Alu300 cadet from zodiac. 95 lbs and $1800. Hard to beat and in 5 years???? Same cost per year as a hypalon or less perhaps. As long as it doesn't need to be of the water 1/2 the time for warranty repairs. Also not sure the dealer network AB and Caribe have outside the Americas. Certainly zodiac is well represented in French Polynesia and NZ.

[KD8NPB]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

I'm really looking hard at that Alu300 cadet from zodiac. 95 lbs and $1800. Hard to beat and in 5 years???? Same cost per year as a hypalon or less perhaps. As long as it doesn't need to be of the water 1/2 the time for warranty repairs. Also not sure the dealer network AB and Caribe have outside the Americas. Certainly zodiac is well represented in French Polynesia and NZ.

It should be noted too, Zodiac is the only inflatable manufacturer with a trained service network.

[Boatguy30]

Originally Posted by KD8NPB

It should be noted too, Zodiac is the only inflatable manufacturer with a trained service network.

Have you seen any of these new alloy hull ribs yet? The online info on even the main zodiac site isn’t great. I’m also looking at the Walker Bay super light. Which is only about 1000 more for hypalon and a fiberglass hull which would be easier to repair if needed. Also 10 lbs lighter than the zodiac.

I have a decent 9’ AB that can get me thru summer on the Chesapeake. Really don’t want to order a zodiac before I see one in person.

[KD8NPB]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Have you seen any of these new alloy hull ribs yet? The online info on even the main zodiac site isn’t great.

Yeah, I've laid on hands from a technical standpoint.

What do you want to know?

///

As of 2018, CSM/CR ("Hypalon") will always outlast PVC, so if you're looking for something that "lasts forever", stick with a CSM/CR product. But, if you're looking for something for less than 10 years, PVC is going to be your friend in terms of cost. Air-holding integrity for PVC is substantial better than CSM/CR within that 10 year period too.

Since CSM/CR is hand-glued, it is susceptible to "creamer" leaks, which are considered to be "acceptable" by most manufacturers. ISO6185 allows up to 20%/24hr leakdown as a production tolerance. This is the tolerance Walker Bay uses for their warranty. AB uses a modification, 20%/5days.

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by KD8NPB

Yeah, I've laid on hands from a technical standpoint.

What do you want to know?

///

As of 2018, CSM/CR ("Hypalon") will always outlast PVC, so if you're looking for something that "lasts forever", stick with a CSM/CR product. But, if you're looking for something for less than 10 years, PVC is going to be your friend in terms of cost. Air-holding integrity for PVC is substantial better than CSM/CR within that 10 year period too.

Since CSM/CR is hand-glued, it is susceptible to "creamer" leaks, which are considered to be "acceptable" by most manufacturers. ISO6185 allows up to 20%/24hr leakdown as a production tolerance. This is the tolerance Walker Bay uses for their warranty. AB uses a modification, 20%/5days.

Hhhmm my CSM/CR dinghy leaks nothing.. Like really nothing. We put air in it maybe once every 2 months.

[Boatguy30]

Originally Posted by travellerw

Hhhmm my CSM/CR dinghy leaks nothing.. Like really nothing. We put air in it maybe once every 2 months.

No to be picky, but I feel you need to add air, it leaks.

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

No to be picky, but I feel you need to add air, it leaks.

Everything that holds air is somewhat permeable. There is nothing that will remain at a constant pressure forever, some of the gasses will always pass through the material.

Even tires require filling every so often. This is why some tire shops stock straight nitrogen gas. Nitrogen is a larger molecule. This reduces its ability to permeate materials (however, it still does).