2-Stroke vs 4-Stroke Outboards

[Funkydrum]

I've searched and not found a good thread on this....


I'm a big fan of the lighter-weight and simplicty of 2-strokes and can find a new Yamaha Enduro in the Bahamas. I'll admit that my preferences have been tainted by both the weight and complexity of EARLIER 4-strokes.


Have the 4-strokes improved enough, OR have US buyers convinced themselves that they are 'good enough' as that is their only choice? All the old-school sailers seem to be clinging to their 2-strokes.



This outboard is for my new OC-Tender 330 which needs limited hp and the 8hp Yamaha Enduro is plenty, and crazy light.


Am I overthinking this ?

[rslifkin]

The light weight of a 2 stroke is appealing, but at the same time, I want nothing to do with the smoke, stink, etc. of them and would rather have a good 4 stroke.

[Adelie]

The issue is that in the US, Canada, the EU and maybe Australia it’s not legal to sell new, small 2-strokes because they can’t be made pollution compliant. Being that it’s illegal to sell new ones, I believe it is also difficult or possibly illegal to import parts for them. Given that this has been the case for some time the pool of mechanics that can work on the new 2-strikes is probably slowly shrinking.

If you leave the developed countries, the situation is reversed. Nobody buys 4-strokes so they aren’t stocked and nobody knows how to work on them. Slight exaggeration perhaps but close.

You can get a 2-stroke in the Bahamas, importing it into the US right after buying it would require circumventing customs.
You would need to find a way to get parts imported into the US probably thru non-commercial channels. Mail or a courier service would work but there might be more finagling there.
You would need to do your own work or find somebody willing to do it. Probably at some markup. Hard to say.

You can do it, there are potential legal and maintenance issues.

If you were leaving for a good bit, to cruise thru the Caribbean for several years, say, then buy a 2.5hp in the US. Get the Enduro when you get to the Bahamas and keep going. Keep the 2.5hp as a backup. When you return you can claim the Enduro as regular ship’s equipment, that might fly, but you would need to have been gone years not weeks or months. And you would still need to arrange parts supply when you get back.

[thomm225]

The 4 strokes are simply better, more clean running, and longer lasting than the 2 strokes.

Plus they are much more efficient on fuel.

I've changed the plug once on my 4 stroke outboard in 10 years. Try that on a 2 stroke.

On top of all that, all you add is gas and once/year an oil change.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Funkydrum

I'm a big fan of the lighter-weight and simplicty of 2-strokes and can find a new Yamaha Enduro in the Bahamas. I'll admit that my preferences have been tainted by both the weight and complexity of EARLIER 4-strokes.


Have the 4-strokes improved enough, OR have US buyers convinced themselves that they are 'good enough' as that is their only choice? All the old-school sailers seem to be clinging to their 2-strokes.

I've been used both 2 stroke and 4stroke dirtbikes for many, many years. The same with outboards. You're summary is completely misguided.

1) US buyers cannot purchase a new 2 stroke, and old 2 strokes are....old and getting harder to find.

2) The simplicity argument is one made by a die hard 2 stroker.

-> Since when is an oil change complex?? Yes, ring and piston jobs are easy on a 2stroke. They're also basically non-existent on a 4 stroke. I've never had to replace a piston and ring on a 4 stroke dirt bike and those get rung out and run far harder than any dinghy OB.

-> Pre-mixing oil and gas is.....easier??

-> fouling plugs is.....easier??

3) The benefit of a 2 stroke is....... no mosquitos.

4) The benefit of a 4 stroke is they don't smoke, they don't smell, and they're not loud.

5) Yes, 2 strokes are lighter.

[Caleb_Grey]

The only people who still think 2 strokes are better than 4 now are cruisers from the 70's and 80's when they were better.

[Adelie]

2-strokes are more tolerant of dirty fuel. And fuel with ethanol in it.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Adelie

2-strokes are more tolerant of dirty fuel. And fuel with ethanol in it.

Right?!

I think a 2 stroke burning ethanol gas and oil together makes them stink twice as much as they did in the past.

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by Caleb_Grey

The only people who still think 2 strokes are better than 4 now are cruisers from the 70's and 80's when they were better.

Seems a bit harsh and personal Caleb. But insults and negative generalisations aside, I recently bought a cool little 3.3hp Mercury two stroke. It was nearly $500 less than the equivalent 4stroke dealer price. Wonderful little motor that pushes the dinghy along nicely.

Some years back I had many happy seasons sailing with just a Tohatsu 8hp two stroke hung off the stern of my 26ft keelboat. Always started well and never missed a beat.

And how difficult is it two add a bit of oil to the petrol can each time you fill it? Two stroke engines today are relatively quiet, reliable, and still easy maintenance.

Oh and I wasn't a cruiser in the 70's or 80's so don't know if they were better then or not. But I did have a 4 stroke 10hp Honda for a while, and it was really really heavy, deafeningly loud and only ran when the stars lined up correctly. Fortunately it was also attractive to thieves and was stolen so saved my poor arm countless future pulls.

Funkydrum buy what you feel is a good choice for your needs and situation.

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by Adelie

The issue is that in the US, Canada, the EU and maybe Australia it’s not legal to sell new, small 2-strokes because they can’t be made pollution compliant. Being that it’s illegal to sell new ones, ...

The recent Australian law change doesn't prohibit 2 stroke engines per se, rather it prohibits engines that can't meet emission standards. Some Tohatsu 2 strokes continue to be available because they meet the emission standard required.

And it's not just outboards, the ban includes all high emission small engines for all sorts of uses such as lawn mowers, mulchers, leaf blowers, generators, chainsaws et al.

The ban prohibits new engines being sold. People can continue to use their old equipment and parts and service will continue to be available.

[misfits]

I have a 36 year old 2 hp Yamaha.
I'd buy another 2 stroke outboard in a heartbeat...

Seems most of the people I see at the dinghy dock(s) frustrated over their engines not starting have 4 strokes hanging off the transom. Just saying

[jt11791]

Originally Posted by Funkydrum

This outboard is for my new OC-Tender 330 which needs limited hp and the 8hp Yamaha Enduro is plenty, and crazy light.


Am I overthinking this ?

I have an OC330 too, great boat. 8hp may be enough, depending on your requirements, but it's on the small side. If your usage involves more than two people and/or a lot of gear (scuba?) I'd think about a 10hp or even 15hp.

I have a 9.9hp 2-stroke on my OC330 and that's about right for getting me, my wife, and the groceries (or the scuba gear), around. It will plane with three people and no gear, it won't plane with four people.

You bought an OCTender partly for its light weight, I'm sure, so I understand the desire for a light weight 2-stroke. I did the same thing. But how big a weight concern do you have? My 2-stroke weighs about 80lbs and a modern 4-stroke of the same hp is around 90lbs. Not a big deal. If I ever have to replace my outboard, I'll likely get a 4-stroke for the improved fuel economy and quieter running, but I expect the motor I have to last many years.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Caleb_Grey

The only people who still think 2 strokes are better than 4 now are cruisers from the 70's and 80's when they were better.

Not being a cruiser from the 70's or 80's (unless you're speaking of age) and still thinking 2-strokes are better in some important ways, I guess I am an exception to your absolutism which should not be surprising since such absolute statements like that are usually from the mouths of blowhards and often wrong.

Yours is.

Two stroke motors are less complex and have fewer parts. If you cruise in undeveloped places in the world that simplicity (and repairability) is valuable.

Two stroke motors are much lighter. Since we must load it on and off of the dingy frequently, and horse it around onto and off of the bracket where it is stored, this weight difference is critical to me. I can barely manage my 77 lb two stroke and the thought of managing a 99lb 4-stroke is daunting. I will try to avoid this.

My experience with 2-stroke reliability compares favorably with anecdotal reports from owners of 4-strokes.

We don't put many hours a year on our 2-stroke, and virtually zero maintenance, yet it starts easily, runs quietly, and continues to serve us well after 22 years (including three times underwater, twice while running).

I am sure we could be happy with a new 4-stroke despite the short comings, and I'd love to have one, (or a new 2-stroke even more), but since our old 2-stroke is still running so well I don't see the need.

[rslifkin]

For the weight complaints, if you're looking at an 8 / 10hp, the Tohatsu 8 / 9.8 4 stroke is only 81.5 lbs (lightest I've found for that size, the other "small" 9.9s are in the mid to high 80s). So it's slightly heavier than an old 2 stroke 10 / 15 hp, but not a lot. Once you go to the bigger 9.9 / 15 / 20 4 strokes , it's close to 100 lbs.

[Argyle38]

I have an old Tohatsu 2.5 two stroke. You can't by a new one in the US but there are plenty of parts available from multiple suppliers. You could even build yourself a whole motor if you wanted, but it would be quite expensive.

For me, the biggest advantage of the small 2-stroke was weight and the ability for them to be stored laid down. I can pick it up easily with one hand. It weighs less than my electric trolling motor.

It doesn't really smoke all that much once it's warmed up and running at any speed. It is very loud. Some of the new 4-strokes are wonderfully quiet.

I grew up with 2-stroke dirt bikes so working on it is nothing to me. I don't know why a 2-stroke would be more tolerant of ethanol-gas. The biggest issue I've had is carb corrosion requiring a clean up, possibly caused by a bit of ethanol gas left in the carb. I try to use non-ethanol as much as possible.