Winch on Mast - Size and Mounting?

[alanperry]

Well my next project is to put a winch on the port side of my mast. There is already a winch base plate there but no winch has ever been mounted.

The winch in this location will do two things primarily: 1. be used to reef the leech of the sail thru blocks that run the line fwd from the aft end of the boom. 2. And be used to help raise the jib Halyard.

The boat is a 41 foot Cheoy Lee Offshore (Sloop) with a sail area of just under 900 Sq/ft (total) The Genoa I have is a 90%.

As for mounting the winch; would you drill holes thru the base plate that is attached to the mast AND into the mast? Then tap them for the screws?

OR would you just drill thru the base plate without continuing on into the mast? ...the problem I see with that approach is that it is too close to the mast at the top and bottom to allow a screw of the right size to be used to hold the winch on.

Unfortunately the winch on the STBD side of the mast is a wrie halyard winch so it is hard to compare the two. (I would really like to get rid of that)

Next is winch size. I have my own ideas but would like to hear the thoughts of others.

Alan Perry
S/V Oceanus
Seattle WA

[Sandero]

Don't drill into the mast! Drill into the mounting plate and mount the winch on that with proper sized bolts and washers (lock). Can you remove the plate.. mount the winch and then re attached the mounting plate? The plate I use DOES have sufficient clearance for bolt heads.

How is the plate attached at present? Could you gain some mounting space with longer fasteners and some sort of stand off spacers?

Jef
sv Shiva
Contest 36s

[colemj]

Alan,

I think I am reading your post a bit differently than Jef. The way I understand it, there is a winch pad (aluminum or wood?) mounted on the mast and you want to mount a winch in that exact same place. The bottom of the pad against the winch is curved to fit the mast section, so the thickness of the top and bottom of the pad is rather thinner than the sides because of this. You want to know if it is OK to drill all the way through the pad into the mast (and tap for bolts), or if you need to drill and tap a blind hole that stops short of continuing through the mast.

Is that how you meant it?

I just faced the same situation, and I drilled all the way through the pad and into the mast. However, my pad was aluminum and welded onto the mast, so it essentially represents a section of thick mast wall. If yours is similar, then it will be OK to drill all the way through. Drilling and tapping a blind hole requires special bits and taps made for this purpose.

If you have a wood pad, then you need to remove it, attach the winch to it and reinstall it. I wouldn't rely on the thin mast section behind it to provide enough threads to hold a winch.

Oh yeah, if you drill through your mast, make sure you don't have any wires or halyards running against the inside of the mast where you are drilling.

Mark

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Alan,
The halyard winch size is usually determine by the sqft of your largest genoa. Your size boat would probably require a #24 or possibly #30 lewmar/harken size.
I've sailed on an Off-shore 41 yawl. Wonderful cruising boat.
Good luck.
JohnL

[roverhi]

By all means drill through the pad and tap the puka all the way through unless it's a stainless steel pad that is itself solidly attached by machine screws tapped into the mast. Aluminum and/or wooden pads typically aren't held in position by more than a single machine screw or just old age. You need to tap all the way through to be sure that the winch and pad are securely attached to the mast. Use an insulating agent like LocTite or some such for the fasteners so they don't weld themselves into the mast. Fasteners tapped into the mast with coarse threads fasteners have a tremendous holding power especially in shear as is the case with a winch. More than adequate for most hardware attached to a mast.

As far as size, a number #16, maybe even a #12 would probably be adequate Self tailing winches are very nice to have at the mast as they allow you to use one hand for the winch and the other for yourself. Assume you'd also be using the winch for your asymetrical spinnaker halyard with a rope clutch.

I'm a little leary of your idea to use the winch for reefing as well as the jib halyard. You have to be very very very careful of the lead so you don't get over-riding turns on the winch. An over-riding turn can ruin your day, the line when you have to cut it away and possibly endanger the boat. If you've got traditional reefing with lines led to blocks on the side of the boom, a winch is normally mounted on the boom. These winches don't take much of a load so you could probably get by with a #6 or so. You can pick up a winch this size up on Ebay for well under a $100.

Aloha
Peter O.

[Weyalan]

Just to offer a slightly dissenting opinion; I think that, as a rule, winches on the mast are to be avoided. Wherever possible, halyards & even reefing lines should be routed back to the cockpit, where a cabin-top winch may be used. Going to the mast, particularly offshore in a decent sea becomes quite an operation, so the less time spent there, the better!

[Sandero]

I added a mast winch which I use for a few things. To hoist and tension head sail on RF. There is also a line stopper so the halyard is made up and stored at the mast.

I agree with the notion that you are safer in the cockpit, but some of the tasks require work at the mast... such as hoisting and flying a cruising spinnaker, setting the reaching strut and even hoisting the storm canvas. My reefing line, main halyard, vang and topping lift are led to the cockpit, but I don't think I could hand more lines running aft so I do the mast work occasionally.

Jef
sv Shiva
Contest 36s

[SFCheoyLee41]

I have a 1981 Cheoy Lee 41 Ketch, but the winch for the two leech reefing lines is on the boom. See picture below. This works really well. It does require going up to the mast for a few minutes, but even here in San Francisco with our rather stiff winds I don't find that a problem... if I reef early!

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...s/IMGP0525.jpg

My CL41 has winches already installed on both sides of the main. One is for the jib halyard (which is on a roller furler) and one for the spinnaker. However, in your case, and I would add that I am by no means an expert on rigging, but would it not be simpler to just use a wire halyard on your jib if you already have a wire winch installed? I would be very careful attaching any new winch to the mast. The prior owner of my CL41 added a small winch to the mizzen for the mizzen halyard. He did not do it properly and water got in through the screw holes over the years and caused a rot problem. I had to have the bottom four feet of the mizzen replaced. If you go to this page of my boat's website http://www.cheoylee41.com/Refit1.html you can see the mast work being done. It is NOT an inexpensive project to replace a mast section!

[alanperry]

Ok, Here goes at answering some of the answers: first thanks to all that posted in response to my question.

First the winch pad is aluminum, an original part of the mast, and welded. So getting any screw at the top and bottom where the mast radius intersects the straight line of the winch pad is impossible, pretty much requiring one to drill and tap at least those holes into the mast. There is probably less than a 1/16" behind the base in that area for screw length.

Do you really think drilling and tapping into the mast is a problem? For one thing its almost a 1/4 inch thick (.22) at this point. But it is a lot of work and tough to get the holes perpedicular to the winch base when using a hand drill and tap. Anyone with any empirical evidence on not drilling the mast? It gets drilled for radar installations, lights, wire entrance holes???? Why not the winch mtg. holes?

As for leading everything to the cockpit, I agree that it may be safer and uncomfortable to go to the mast at times. However I side with old Nigel Calder on this one. It makes no sense to lead lines to the cockpit if you still have to go to the mast to reef the sail and put the ring of the cringle over the hook. You might as well do it all at the mast.

Peter: your point about a fair lead to the mast is an excellent one. I will have two big cheek blocks at the aft end of the boom leading the reefing line thru eyes to the forward end where a block picks up the lines and aims them pretty well at the winch. I am working on all the geometry now. I am hoping it will work the way it appears it will. I will put two Lewmar rope clutches on the boom for those lines. (see my comment below)

To SF CL41: Hey its always great to hear from someone who has a Cheoy Lee! Your boom appears to be the Sitka Spruce version, mine is all aluminum from Yacht Spars of NZ and my boom has a pretty good radius on it and would require an aluminum winch base welded there...which I already have on the mast.

I looked at your web site, my God what an ordeal you had. But the boat looks great! By the way, was that water coming out of the old fuel tank that folks often seal up? It's just aft of the keel but from the outside looks like part of the keel. this tank is located just under the stuffing box and is about 50 gallons. Many people close it up and eventually water leaks in. I'd love to e mail you about some features of our boats if you would like, mail me at: alanperry@dslnorthwest.net I would love to hear from you.

WINCH SIZE:

Some of you recommended a Harken/Lewmar size 24-30...I have a Lewmar 30 just sitting around the house but it just seems so small to handle the 9/16" jib halyard. I wonder if I could get enough wraps on it? I may try that one but I would hate to have to replace it and put more holes in for a bigger one later.??? Just checked the Lewmar catalog it recommends the 30ST up to
1/2" line only...mmmm. It also recommends the 48st for my size boat for the jib halyard. I was wondering what some of you were using in the real world?

On the other hand I could put that Lewmar 30 on the boom for the reefing lines and get another for the mast????

You all gave me alot to think over before I have to act on it...thanks

Alan Perry
S/V Oceanus
Seattle WA

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Again Alan,
The recommended halyard winch size for genoa 600 - 750 square feet for a cruising vessel is 30. Vessel your size with a 90% could probably go with the 24 but since you have a 30 that's what I would install. Check page 29 in Rigging by Enrico Sala.
A 48ST is an awfully large winch to be mounting on a mast. That's a recommended size for a sheet winch in Rigging. Anyone else have one that large?
Kind Regards,
--JohnL--