Whisker pole, how to connect the lines?

[Sailingbluew]

Hi, my boat came with a forespear whisker pole and I'm trying to figure out how to use it.

I read that I should attach it to the genoa by the clew cringle . I assume this the the metal ring in the sail, but I see others connect it to the two sheet bowlines. So this goes into the jaw of the pole

Is the ring around the pole for the topping lift or is the the loop of rope on the top of the pole?

Where do I attach the foreguy? To the rope loop on the underside?

I couldn't find the user manual for the Whisker pole.

[Don C L]

These will help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGwNsS27R14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czoi63XfWTQ

I think you can see the loop is for the topping lift along with the loop of line at the end.

The second video has the pole like yours.

[Don C L]

At 3:03 in the second video you can see the topping lift goes to a small block or ring that holds the line that is attached at the end of the pole and to the ring on the pole.

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by Sailingbluew

I read that I should attach it to the genoa by the clew cringle . I assume this the the metal ring in the sail, but I see others connect it to the two sheet bowlines. So this goes into the jaw of the pole

Is the ring around the pole for the topping lift or is the the loop of rope on the top of the pole?

Where do I attach the foreguy? To the rope loop on the underside?

I couldn't find the user manual for the Whisker pole.

Don C L has done the superb job of providing you with links to Forespar videos that should answer many of your questions.

1. The jaw at the outboard end of the pole is there for you to capture the genoa sheet. The sheet proper - not the clew or loop knots at the clew. The idea of the jaw closed by the piston is that your jib sheet can run freely in the jaw and that you can release the sheet from the pole just by pulling the piston line.

2. Yours is an extensible whisker pole. You need to make a bridle of small diameter line that runs from the extended outboard end of the pole to that centre pole metal ring around the pole. That small diameter line then becomes a bridle to which you will attach the topping lift. The idea being that your whisker pole is better if supported by the topping lift both at the middle and at the outboard end, especially in a seaway.

Forespar does not supply the small diameter line that becomes the whisker pole bridle because Forespar cannot guess your sail size and how much you want to extend your pole (or whether you want to have two or three favourite lengths of extension to suit your sails or your favoured degree of roller-furling a sail). You need to experiment to find how far you might extend your pole. You might for example use your whisker pole with sails of different sizes, or you might use your whisker pole with your genoa when it is partly roller-furled. It's up to you to determine the length of the pole bridle that suits you and your sails (and to adjust it to suit different headsails, or the same headsail if partly roller-furled). The hint is to make your bridle line just long enough for your maximum pole extension, otherwise you might have excess line causing potential danger when the pole is stowed.

3. In the calm conditions shown in the Forespar videos, a whisker pole might be used without a fore-guy and aft-guy.

In a developed seaway, you might prefer stablising your whisker pole with a fore-guy and an aft-guy. Your current end fitting does not have many attachment points. You could experiment making a fore-guy and an aft-guy that attach to that loop of rope at the outboard end. Or you could explore changing your end fitting to one that has additional dedicated attachment points.

Alternatively, there are plenty of ways of making do without a fore-guy and an aft-guy. One is to move your jib sheet lead (e.g. a sheet turning block) as far for'ard as possible. That should increase the angle the sheet makes after the pole, so the aft end of your jib sheet imitates an aft-guy, preventing the pole from lifting in puffs. Similarly, you can put a little tension on your lazy jib sheet to keep the pole end down and for'ard.

[barcoMeCasa]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

In a developed seaway, you might prefer stablising your whisker pole with a fore-guy and an aft-guy.

In addition this offshore sailors sometimes run a line from the mast, through a little block at the jaws into a snatch block. The sheet then goes through the snatch block so you can have the pole rigged secure and attach the sheet afterwards then pull the line to pull the sheet out to the end of the pole. Means less chafe on the sheet as well for long offshore passages.

[LeaseOnLife]

Originally Posted by barcoMeCasa

run a line from the mast, through a little block at the jaws into a snatch block...

can you come up with a drawing or pic? this may well solve some of our pole dance issues! Thanks.

[ullar]

Originally Posted by barcoMeCasa

In addition this offshore sailors sometimes run a line from the mast, through a little block at the jaws into a snatch block. The sheet then goes through the snatch block so you can have the pole rigged secure and attach the sheet afterwards then pull the line to pull the sheet out to the end of the pole. Means less chafe on the sheet as well for long offshore passages.

+1 on that. Secure the pole first, then pull out the genua and secure the sheet.

[barcoMeCasa]

Originally Posted by LeaseOnLife

can you come up with a drawing or pic? this may well solve some of our pole dance issues! Thanks.

my feeble art skills

[Sailingbluew]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

Don C L has done the superb job of providing you with links to Forespar videos that should answer many of your questions.

1. The jaw at the outboard end of the pole is there for you to capture the genoa sheet. The sheet proper - not the clew or loop knots at the clew. The idea of the jaw closed by the piston is that your jib sheet can run freely in the jaw and that you can release the sheet from the pole just by pulling the piston line.

2. Yours is an extensible whisker pole. You need to make a bridle of small diameter line that runs from the extended outboard end of the pole to that centre pole metal ring around the pole. That small diameter line then becomes a bridle to which you will attach the topping lift. The idea being that your whisker pole is better if supported by the topping lift both at the middle and at the outboard end, especially in a seaway.

Forespar does not supply the small diameter line that becomes the whisker pole bridle because Forespar cannot guess your sail size and how much you want to extend your pole (or whether you want to have two or three favourite lengths of extension to suit your sails or your favoured degree of roller-furling a sail). You need to experiment to find how far you might extend your pole. You might for example use your whisker pole with sails of different sizes, or you might use your whisker pole with your genoa when it is partly roller-furled. It's up to you to determine the length of the pole bridle that suits you and your sails (and to adjust it to suit different headsails, or the same headsail if partly roller-furled). The hint is to make your bridle line just long enough for your maximum pole extension, otherwise you might have excess line causing potential danger when the pole is stowed.

3. In the calm conditions shown in the Forespar videos, a whisker pole might be used without a fore-guy and aft-guy.

In a developed seaway, you might prefer stablising your whisker pole with a fore-guy and an aft-guy. Your current end fitting does not have many attachment points. You could experiment making a fore-guy and an aft-guy that attach to that loop of rope at the outboard end. Or you could explore changing your end fitting to one that has additional dedicated attachment points.

Alternatively, there are plenty of ways of making do without a fore-guy and an aft-guy. One is to move your jib sheet lead (e.g. a sheet turning block) as far for'ard as possible. That should increase the angle the sheet makes after the pole, so the aft end of your jib sheet imitates an aft-guy, preventing the pole from lifting in puffs. Similarly, you can put a little tension on your lazy jib sheet to keep the pole end down and for'ard.

Thanks , great post especially the last part about sheet turning block being moved forward to keep the pole down!

[Sailingbluew]

I have attached the both genoa sheets and topping lift with a bridle.

But as I understand the whisker pole is supposed to by at clew height. At least it is in the video above. Mine is extending far beyond the genoa if I were to move it that high. I assume it should be low enough so it can pass over to the other side on a gybe

I do have another loop on the underside of the pole for the foreguy.

Do you let the telescope line run freely and it will adjust itself? It was not easy to get enough line out to secure it now that it is not even extended

Ignore the genoa badly wrap. ��

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by Sailingbluew

But as I understand the whisker pole is supposed to by at clew height. At least it is in the video above. Mine is extending far beyond the genoa if I were to move it that high. I assume it should be low enough so it can pass over to the other side on a gybe

Think of the whisker pole as a beam, just like a mast. A beam is strongest in compression. The longer a beam is, the more it is prone to bending or buckling.

So your aims include (1) to minimise any lateral force to your whisker pole; and (2) to position the pole so all (or almost all) force is compressing it, meaning running directly from outboard end to inboard end.

To achieve aim (2) you want your whisker pole to be horizontal, more or less parallel to the sea surface. That means that the inboard end must be very close to the same height as your genoa or jib clew. Any force from your headsail sheet should then compress your whisker pole against your mast.

Any force at the end of a tilted/steeved pole must include a lateral component that will tend to bend or buckle your pole.

Your Forespar whisker pole will be either a line control pole or a twist-lock pole. The amount of extension should be under your control.

Only extend the pole to the point that it extends horizontally to the clew of your headsail sheet at about the level of the clew of the headsail. The longer the extension, the more prone your pole is to buckling or bending.

If you have a wardrobe of headsails, such as a working jib and a light wind genoa, you might (in light conditions) try the pole with each of your headsails. And mark the degree of extension, perhaps with a permanent marker, fingernail polish, or whatever. Perhaps one slash mark on the pole for your working jib, two slash marks for your overlapping genoa.

You then make your whisker pole bridle so it is adjustable: just the right length for your maximum extension to suit your overlapping genoa, and with intermediate lengths to suit your other headsails or a reefed headsail.

Your topping lift and bridle are important. You can guess what happens if the outboard end of your whisker pole dips into a wave or falls into the drink while the boat is moving.

If you are planning on considerable blue-water work, then dedicated fore-guy and aft-guy are well worthwhile. The idea then is to have your pole held by three lines (topping lift and two guys) so that you can roller-furl your headsail fast in case of unforeseen foul weather and (if necessary) leave the pole deployed until a squall has passed (for example).

Spend time at anchor or at a dock in calm conditions practising deploying your pole so you get the degree of extension and the length of your pole bridle just right.

Not all boats have the geometry to allow for the pole to simply change sides. On my vessel, the geometry is such that I have to un-deploy the pole, making it vertical (or nearly so) against the mast, and then redeploy on the other side. YMMV.

In addition to taking care to keep the outboard end of the pole out of the water, it should go without saying that you ought never let the pole touch a wire shroud. For one, that is an invitation for bending the pole. For two, any contact with a wire shroud in a seaway will turn the wire shroud into a hacksaw that can cut right through the pole.

[barcoMeCasa]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

To achieve aim (2) you want your whisker pole to be horizontal, more or less parallel to the sea surface. That means that the inboard end must be very close to the same height as your genoa or jib clew. Any force from your headsail sheet should then compress your whisker pole against your mast.

Any force at the end of a tilted/steeved pole must include a lateral component that will tend to bend or buckle your pole.

That doesn't make any sense

Where can the centre point bending forces come from apart from an force away from the end node points? Back off the topping on the pole a little once in place and how can it not be in column, where are the forces other than the axial forces acting along the longitudinal axis of the beam(pole) coming from?

Edit - reread, and agree from the point of view of the force on the mast track, the pole is best perpendicular to the the mast to keep up/down forces on the pole attachment track But for buckling the pole, don't crank up the topping lift.

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by barcoMeCasa

That doesn't make any sense

Where can the centre point bending forces come from apart from an force away from the end node points? Back off the topping on the pole a little once in place and how can it not be in column, where are the forces other than the axial forces acting along the longitudinal axis of the beam(pole) coming from?

Edit - reread, and agree from the point of view of the force on the mast track, the pole is best perpendicular to the the mast to keep up/down forces on the pole attachment track But for buckling the pole, don't crank up the topping lift.

Hmm ... you could have a point that the rubric of keeping the pole perpendicular to the mast can be over-emphasised.

I can think of at least two cases I've seen where having set the pole horizontal, that did not stop a pole bending or buckling:

* in one case, a boat rolled momentarily and dug the out-board end into the sea; and

* in another case, a gorilla on the sheet winch for unknown reason over-trimmed the sheet and bent the pole.

And a case where it was failure to have a taut fore-guy contributed to the damage: a sheet winch grinder eased the sheet, perhaps thinking that the headsail ought go for'ard. Instead, the sail skyed the pole and may have flogged (it happened so fast that no one saw exactly) and the pole likely hit the headstay and bent.

[barcoMeCasa]

Crank anything up enough it will go bang

[Sailingbluew]

Wouldn't the whisker pole just slide down the genoa sheet without guys when in use?