Whisker Pole

[GILow]

One mode of pole failure not mentioned so far is the "idiot on the helm" mode.

I dipped our pole while doing 6 or 7 knots because I had not locked the topping lift brake properly.

Thankfully the pole was strong enough that it hit the lower stays, pivoted around them and ripped the bottom 6 inches of track off the mast. The pole survived and the bottom 6 inches of track were not a huge loss.

I keep the piece of shattered track at the Nav station to remind me to be more careful in future.

[ullar]

Use the right size spinnaker pole for poling out your genoa. The problem would be to fit it on board. Telescopic whisker poles tend to bend and break, operator error or not. I ended up using the standard size spinnaker pole. Just roll away part of genoa if it starts to flap. I also fix the pole with topping lift and two guys so I can roll away the genoa whenever I will without moving the pole.

[puffcard]

The telescoping poles are also very heavy, but do allow you to use less mast track. We use to have a pin lock telescoping pole and have gone to a fix spin pole. We store ours on the deck and that does get in the way. An issue we have while cruising, is we carry a dinghy on deck and going forward to set a pole is a pain. For us one trick is to furl the genny, set the pole and unfurl the sail. Is your foredeck pretty clean? Dancing around with a 20lb, 15ft long pole on the foredeck can be a lot of fun. I usually set a A-chute, but can't go as deep, can only go to 155 degrees app wind. The A-chute is a another fine addition to help with downwind/light air sailing. I'm leaving the pole at home this year and next year getting a carbon one, they only weight 7lbs. Check with your favorite marine supply store, that starts with a D. The carbon fiber poles aren't that badly priced. There's a lot of moving parts with telescoping poles. In a salty environment they just have a hard time working perfectly.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by puffcard

The telescoping poles are also very heavy, but do allow you to use less mast track. We use to have a pin lock telescoping pole and have gone to a fix spin pole. We store ours on the deck and that does get in the way. An issue we have while cruising, is we carry a dinghy on deck and going forward to set a pole is a pain. For us one trick is to furl the genny, set the pole and unfurl the sail. Is your foredeck pretty clean?

puffcard, I've seen spin poles stored on the cabin top on Tartan 37's. Is this not an option on your boat? Although obviously it tends to be easier to deal with a pole which is on the foredeck. And they make a nice "toerail" when not in use.

Also, what sort of end fittings do you have on your pole?

[puffcard]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

puffcard, I've seen spin poles stored on the cabin top on Tartan 37's. Is this not an option on your boat? Although obviously it tends to be easier to deal with a pole which is on the foredeck. And they make a nice "toerail" when not in use.

Also, what sort of end fittings do you have on your pole?

I've seen the lifelines mount, and have given them a serious look. They seemed they may foul the jib sheets. Cabin top mount wouldn't work with the dinghy on top. Ours mount right next to the toe rail. Still gets in way, as the dinghy takes up so much room. The end fittings are both plunger jaws. I made mine and went with a size smaller to 3", I had the end fittings and to save a little weight. The pole is 16ft to match the J. We do a few races during the summer and don't want a penalty. An oversize pole work well with a bigger genny, 135% and larger.

[Sea Lyon]

Thanks for all the information! I had no idea that the telescoping whisker poles were so prone to failure,but after doing a google search plenty of stories.

If using a fixed length pole, is there any way to reef the genoa?

Thanks again

Bob

[Paul Elliott]

I have a Forespar line-control telescoping whisker pole (carbon fiber) for my 44ft sailboat, and it works quite well. It lets me fully pole out my 120% genoa, and it is pretty easy to set up. But it is way more fragile than my fat J-length carbon spinnaker pole. I've broken the line-control system twice when using the pole in heavy winds (I should have known better, but I like to push things). One time the line attachment padeye pulled free of the inner pole. Forespar sent me a new eye, some rivets, and a nice carbon backing plate, and I was able to repair it. The other time I snapped a horn off the cleat for the control line. Again, I was able to repair it. I try to be more careful these days. If I'm going to be using the pole for more than a few minutes, I rig an uphaul, downhaul, and sometimes an afterguy. The downhaul also keeps the pole from swinging back into the shrouds. The afterguy lets me furl the genoa and still keep the pole from banging into the headstay.


This photo was taken was during a race -- I wanted to use the symmetrical spinnaker and spin-pole, but when we hoisted the spinnaker it turned out to have mouse-eaten holes in it. So we poled out the genoa using the whisker pole instead. It worked very well.

Sometimes I don't carry the whisker pole. During longer races I usually have two J-length spinnaker poles on board instead. The spin poles are much stronger (also carbon), but are too short to fully extend the genoa. We either partially furl the genoa, or let it bag out to windward. It takes more effort to break a spin pole, but I've done that a few times as well...

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by Sea Lyon

If using a fixed length pole, is there any way to reef the genoa?

If you mean roller-reefing the genoa, yes, that's not a problem. You can generally partially reef the genoa with no issues at all. In fact, unless you have a longer "penalty pole" ( * ), you may want to partially furl the genoa to get better shape. If you completely furl the genoa, the pole will be poking out ahead of the headstay, and the sheet in the pole jaws will have to be slacked. You may want to use guys on the pole to keep the pole in place (see my previous post).


( * ) A typical "race-legal" pole can only be as long as the "J" length (mast to headstay chainplate), and if you use a pole longer than that you have to take a rating penalty.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Sea Lyon

If using a fixed length pole, is there any way to reef the genoa?

Yes, it's not real tough to do. Perhaps the best way is to connect; a foreguy (downhaul), an afterguy, & the topping lift to the pole. And to run the sheet through the pole's jaws. That way with the pole's outer end fixed in place, it won't move when you furl or unfurl more of the jib. As the pole's position isn't dependent on the sheet.

The position of the outer end of the pole is still moveable, as is the height of the inboard end. So that you can optimize it's position. And this is how poles are rigged for symmetrical spinnakers.
It seems/sounds like a lot of lines, but it's worth it, especially for pole stability.

You can also rig the pole up this way when at anchor, for swim call. Without the jib of course. And run a line to/through the pole's outboard end, & use it as a great way to swing way, way out into the water. And if you've any acrobatic talents, you can even do flips in mid-air with this setup. It's a blast!

[Snowpetrel]

I really like an overlength STRONG telescopic pole for serious offshore stuff if you have a overlapping headsail on a furler. That way you can get the big headsail set both flat and well angled forward where it helps with directional stability. Mine have had solid pins rather than a rope, and the main tube is spinnaker pole sized and long enough that its still near J when telescoped up.

With an overlong pole you can have issues when you deeply roll away a headsail. Eventually the pole becomes to long. In this case it is handy to be able to shorten the pole.

I run a 105% non overlapping genoa on my new boat, so I can get by with a 'j' length pole for the shorter foot length. Very handy.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Snowpetrel's post sparked a thought. A fair number of (often older) ocean racers, & long range cruisers will carry 2 poles. And they needn't be the same length nor type. So if you've the space, & budget you might consider this. And sometimes you can find a pole that was damaged, but with the dinged section cut off it works perfectly with you lapper. So that you could carry that plus a penalty pole. Choosing which one to use based on sail choice, & conditions.

One other thing yet unmentioned in the thread is that often it's nice to tune the length of the pole to suit the desired draft depth of the sail or vice versa. Meaning that at times it's nice to have the pole be several feet shorter than the sail in use's J measurement, so that it has a nicely curved shape to it. And other times it's nice to have the pole & sail work together to keep the jib all but board flat. Such things depend on conditions, as well as the cut of the sail, etc. But are another trimming technique that can be quite handy, optimizing your speed & your boat's controllablity, for; wind angle, wind speed, boat speed, waves, sail size & cut, etc.

[Sea Lyon]

I have pretty well decided to go with a fixed length pole. It appears that the advantages of being adjustable don't out weigh the loss of strength.Besides the obvious expense involved, I am sure if it were to break it would be at 2AM in heavy rain!

Now trying to decide on length, the pole will be used with a 110 percent genoa. Planning on mounting on a mast track for vertical storage. J dimension is 15' 9".

Have been primarily been looking at the Forespar poles with the UTS UTR ends any suggestions welcomed, especially concerning length.

Thanks again for all the help.

Bob

[Jim Cate]

When I needed a replacement pole here in Australia, I saved a lot of money by buying appropriately sized alloy tubing from an aluminium supply house and end fittings from a used boat bits shop. There is nothing complicated about spinny poles...

Jim

[Sea Lyon]

Thanks Jim will explore that route. Any ideas on length we have a J dim of 15 ft 9 inches

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

How does the pole collapse? Does the tube actually bend, or the extension mechanism fail?

On our Galapagos to Marquesas passage the adjustable line control Forespar pole failed. There is an aluminum extension mounted inside the larger tube that holds the block for the extension control line. This extension nearly runs the length of the large tube.The internal attachment point of this extension basically disintegrated.
On our current boat we rarely use a pole, maybe 3 or 4 times in the last 25,000 miles. It is just more comfortable and often faster to sail a higher course. The waves move to the quarter and the boat speed goes up. The most useful time we set the pole was heading north in the center of the gulf stream. It was blowing high 20s and we needed to stay DDW to keep in the best current. Had a reefed main and the staysail poled to windward. It lasted about 12 hours.

On our previous cruising boat we used a spin pole to set the asymmetric Spinnaker. It always flew much better and was well behaved with the tack poled a bit to windward, rather simply tacked to the bow.

If I get a chance I'll dump the adjustable pole and replace it with a spin pole, but for the way we sail it is a low priority.