What size winch for going up the mast?

[KayZee]

We're a middle aged couple. Where we are, getting a rigger to come take your money harder than finding a mooring on the 4th of July.


At some point we have to come to terms with going up the mast ourselves for general inspections etc. We have an electric 40 on the house top and an unpowered 40 on the other side of the companionway. One rigger, who pulls himself up masts with a helper on a 4/1 says that the 40 is marginal for taking someone up? Is this true?


If it is true, I would love to hear from other 60ish sailors about how them go up the mast on 40ish foot boats. Steps? Friction based climbers? Multipart tackle AND a winch?




Thanks,


Kurt

[JPA Cate]

In the early days, I cranked Jim up on a spinnaker halyard (genoa halyard winch) or main halyard, on his 30 footer. On our current boat, we spliced a long tail onto the main halyard and let it via a snatch block on the toe rail to the electric windlass, and sent him up that way, with the halyard sheet stopper closed. Now, I'm using a 28 volt Milwaukee right angle drill with a winch bit and take him up that way. I am a small woman, but with practice, I have learned to use what to me is a heavy tool, and I haven't put a ding in anything yet. Touch wood. It works quite well. We have 2 batteries for it, and they recharge pretty quickly, so that by the time the second one is struggling, the first one is ready to go again. I'm 82, and unfit (circumstances beyond my control).

Ann

[KayZee]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Now, I'm using a 28 volt Milwaukee right angle drill with a winch bit and take him up that way. I am a small woman, but with practice, I have learned to use what to me is a heavy tool, and I haven't put a ding in anything yet.
Ann

In what winch do you use the drill with the adapter? How heavy is Jim?



Kurt

[leecea]

We are in our 60s and coming to terms with the same issue. So far we've only done a test hoist using our Lewmar 40. I winched my wife (maybe 130lbs) a few feet up to see what it was like. That wasn't too bad. I could use the winch on fast speed and more easily on slow speed. Then I looked at how much further she had to go and realized that I'd be pretty tired getting her all that way up. I'd probably have to alternate between fast and slow gears and take breaks. Not great for her, but I think I could do it.

I very much doubt that she could winch me up.

BTW: We have heard that using an electric winch is a bad idea - https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ch-261727.html. We had planned to use our electric winch handle with the idea that if it malfunctioned we could just let go of it and it would spin harmlessly. But when we measured it, it would actually jam against out arch tubes and could then continue to winch the person, so we're not happy with that either.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by KayZee

In what winch do you use the drill with the adapter? How heavy is Jim?



Kurt

Kurt, it is an ARCO 40 winch (an inferior design IMO) and I weigh around 160 lbs plus any kit that goes up with me.

If we needed to hoist manually we would take the halyard tail back to the cockpit and use a primary (Barient 32) winch. I think that the superior design and lower gearing would more than offset the added frictional losses incurred.

Jim

[KayZee]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Kurt, it is an ARCO 40 winch (an inferior design IMO) and I weigh around 160 lbs plus any kit that goes up with me.

If we needed to hoist manually we would take the halyard tail back to the cockpit and use a primary (Barient 32) winch. I think that the superior design and lower gearing would more than offset the added frictional losses incurred.

Jim

So a firm maybe with the harken 40. I'll do some testing a few feet off the deck and see what happens. My Ruth is not strong and I'm not light. It might be her that goes up. Luckily, while she's still working on which end of the screwdriver you hold, she's game and a tenacious problem solver. Our PO left wireless headsets. With those and a smart phone we should be set to work out what's happening up there.



Kurt

[sail sfbay]

At 72 no winch..........instead use a SWI-TEC Mastlift https://swi-tec.com/product-category/mastlift/ with a 10:1 purchase in a bosun chair with a safety line tied off at a cleat at the base of the mast every 15 feet by a crew member. Ascend and descend the mast safely with minimal effort.

[Seighlor]

A 40 winch is too small unless you have a really husky young man turning the handle. It takes a little practice but you might consider an ATN mast climber. I used one well into my eighties. In your case, I'd suggest using the mast climber in conjunction with having your wife tail a halyard on the winch as a safety as you climb. When you're ready to come down she can ease you down with the halyard, making for a smooth and easy decent.

[waterman46]

If you know anyone who has experience with working aloft, ask for help the first time you go up. Potentially life threatening situation is not for the inexperienced. Even an inexperienced 3rd person acting as a winch tailer and/or spotter, looking for trouble aloft, allows your full attention to be on the winch.

[sailcrazy]

We sail a Taswell 43-with a 64' mast. I am 77, and weigh 205. We have a self-tailing Harken 40 on the mast, with 4 rope clutches mounted above it-2 spinaker halyards, a staysail halyard, and one other. We tie(don't use the metal clasp) of a spinaker halyard to the bosen's chair, give the other end a few wraps on the winch drum, and close the rope clutch (so it can't slip backwards!). Then I take the other halyard and tie it around me (as a safety line, and close the rope clutch on it. My wife(75, and around 120lbs) puts our 28v Milwaukee right angle 1/2" drill with a winchbit in it into the winch, pulls the trigger, and hoists me up the stick. As she does, she also pulls the slack out of the safety line. The rope clutches prevent the halyards from slipping back, and the chance of both halyard breaking is really small. She can stop my ascent at any point. I go up, and do what needs to be done. To come down she opens one rope clutch, lets some slack thru it, and recloses it. Then she uses the friction on the winch drum and its rope clutch to let me down as far as the slack in the safety line, stops, and repeats until I'm down. We've done it multiple times-works good. Cranking by hand would be tough; the Milwaukee drill makes it easy. We also use the drill for roller reefing in the headsail(full or partial, under load or flapping), the in-mast reefing main sail, bringing the dinghy+o/b up onto the foredeck, etc, etc. .....and even for occasional drilling!! It's been a godsend/a great piece of kit if you don't have elect winches.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by KayZee

We're a middle aged couple. Where we are, getting a rigger to come take your money harder than finding a mooring on the 4th of July.


At some point we have to come to terms with going up the mast ourselves for general inspections etc. We have an electric 40 on the house top and an unpowered 40 on the other side of the companionway. One rigger, who pulls himself up masts with a helper on a 4/1 says that the 40 is marginal for taking someone up? Is this true?


If it is true, I would love to hear from other 60ish sailors about how them go up the mast on 40ish foot boats. Steps? Friction based climbers? Multipart tackle AND a winch?




Thanks,


Kurt

Seriously, use a purchase.
5:1 , fiddle blocks and friction racheting fiddle blocks, and line.
Depending on the height of the rig, you need 300 ft or so.
It's not really expensive to purchase online.
Use a bosun chair or climbing harness, you can then belay your ascender with an extra halyard for safety.
Boatyarddog

[capblasters]

My wide and I are in our early 60s, I'm 95kg. She has more than once hoisted me up using a Harken 40.2 winch and the spinnaker halyard (12mm Dyneema). It was hard work but she was able to do it as long as I helped sing up the mast. We have done this 2-4 times per year.
More recently we started using a right angle drill with a winch bit. Definitely change the work load from upper body strength to good balance and being careful of the torque these drills can provide. She needs a good place to brace herself before slowly squeezing the trigger.

For the safety conscious who will no doubt ask or comment . . . We use a 38.2 winch and the headsail or main halyard as the safety line - never trust one line!! The spinnaker halyard is tied to the bosun's chair, the safety line to my fall arrest harness. Both with bowlines. Independent blocks, brakes and winches for both systems. The only common factor is the mast. My wife raises me with the winch assist until I get near spreaders. Then she goes at it manually. The drill is always at low speed as is the winch.

[Pete7]

There have been several serious accidents with power winches lifting people up the mast, so approach with caution.

We use a webbing mast ladder which folds down to the size of a pillow and easy to hoist on the topping lift. Then a spare halyard normally the spinnaker one of brought round the back of the mast and made tight. The safety line with a prussic knot on the spinnaker halyard means I can self climb the mast.

I'm my late 50s and good for about 40 minutes work up the mast at a time.

Pete

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by sail sfbay

At 72 no winch..........instead use a SWI-TEC Mastlift https://swi-tec.com/product-category/mastlift/ with a 10:1 purchase in a bosun chair with a safety line tied off at a cleat at the base of the mast every 15 feet by a crew member. Ascend and descend the mast safely with minimal effort.

I’ve got one of these Swi-Tech masts lift devices and it’s actually quite a good bit of kit BUT...... I wouldn’t be too keen to hoist it at sea ( the fairly heavy reduction unit has to be at the masthead) but it was very handy for lifting my engine out. It came as part of the inventory on my boat still sealed in its original box and I had no idea what it was until I read the user guide.

[capblasters]

Originally Posted by capblasters

My wide and I are in our early 60s . . .

Boy am I in trouble with the 'wide' comment. I meant my wife.